X-Rays of HA paste?

[pekay]

This is true, it is all hype. It just projects very slightly almost indiscernible. Unless they use a ridiculous amount.

I think HA augmentation is mostly self-perception (no one else really notices it except you)

[Lazlo]

Okay, I'm not saying I'm agreeing with any of this but talked to a max fac today, very well known, also a professor at a top hospital --said that HA paste doesn't do much and is really just a way to pad A LOT of extra money. I don't know it's an irresponsible thing to say or what, but I've heard that twice now, since the things A/G use HA paste for can be done with other materials that are very cheap. I really don't know what to say about it though. Some of Mommaerts' patients have had to it to augment jaw angles and whatnot and they've ended up with asymmetries they were complaining about so who knows...

[Optimistic]

Okay, I'm not saying I'm agreeing with any of this but talked to a max fac today, very well known, also a professor at a top hospital --said that HA paste doesn't do much and is really just a way to pad A LOT of extra money. I don't know it's an irresponsible thing to say or what, but I've heard that twice now, since the things A/G use HA paste for can be done with other materials that are very cheap. I really don't know what to say about it though. Some of Mommaerts' patients have had to it to augment jaw angles and whatnot and they've ended up with asymmetries they were complaining about so who knows...

This is all so confusing because as far as all the studies can show there is no reabsorption, yet constantly one reads of rumours of asymmetries and reabsorption. Sadly I've never seen such a case (not saying they don't exist). If someone has some they can link I'd be happy to look at them.

With asymmetries, would a possible solution simply be to add more? I don't think I'm a fan of this caking on HA paste trend.

And did anyone work out where the HA paste was on that x-ray? Was it the floating bit like I thought?

[Lazlo]

This is all so confusing because as far as all the studies can show there is no reabsorption, yet constantly one reads of rumours of asymmetries and reabsorption. Sadly I've never seen such a case (not saying they don't exist). If someone has some they can link I'd be happy to look at them.

With asymmetries, would a possible solution simply be to add more? I don't think I'm a fan of this caking on HA paste trend.

And did anyone work out where the HA paste was on that x-ray? Was it the floating bit like I thought?

HA paste is bulls**t. What Arnett/Gunson do is that they mix ha paste with your own blood and bone and use it to fill in osteotomy irregularities which is VERY different from just using HA on it's own. HA for augmentation is almost useless.

[Optimistic]

HA paste is bulls**t. What Arnett/Gunson do is that they mix ha paste with your own blood and bone and use it to fill in osteotomy irregularities which is VERY different from just using HA on it's own. HA for augmentation is almost useless.

I'm not trying to argue with you here, just understand. Why do you think HA paste is useless? I've seen quite a few results now coming from several surgeons that do appear to have given significant aesthetic results with the use of HA paste exclusively.

What is your complaint specifically? That it's reabsorbed? Can't do anything to begin with? Thanks.

[Lazlo]

I'm not trying to argue with you here, just understand. Why do you think HA paste is useless? I've seen quite a few results now coming from several surgeons that do appear to have given significant aesthetic results with the use of HA paste exclusively.

What is your complaint specifically? That it's reabsorbed? Can't do anything to begin with? Thanks.

before and after pictures of said HA paste providing cosmetic benefit or it didn't happen. Oh and nothing from Mommaerts site, his labelling is all f'd up.

[Optimistic]

before and after pictures of said HA paste providing cosmetic benefit or it didn't happen. Oh and nothing from Mommaerts site, his labelling is all f'd up.

That's fine. Really the most significant case I can remember is a guy who posted a few months back on lookyourbest. Claimed to have had a HA-paste-only jaw augmentation. His before and afters were quite decent. Are you familiar with who I'm talking about or should I find it and link it again?

[Kristen]

Link it again please

[Lazlo]

That's fine. Really the most significant case I can remember is a guy who posted a few months back on lookyourbest. Claimed to have had a HA-paste-only jaw augmentation. His before and afters were quite decent. Are you familiar with who I'm talking about or should I find it and link it again?

yeah man, link it, let's see what it really does.

[Lazlo]

yeah i agree somewhat but i think implants are worse. i havent heard of any cases where HA has caused problems, mostly just that - aesthetically - it is very ineffective. i would say fillers are probably more noticeable than ha augmentation. maybe when it is independent of jaw surgery it is more obvious?

i don't think HA is bad, just not dramatic enough or very much at all. I agree implants are a terrible idea.

[CK]

i don't think HA is bad, just not dramatic enough or very much at all. I agree implants are a terrible idea.

my understanding was ha is an augmentation, but personally i do not see a difference. maybe in some cases of advancement it is used to maintain the existing bone structure.

[Optimistic]

yeah man, link it, let's see what it really does.

Not huge, but it's enough to make a decent cosmetic difference imo.

http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg


This powerpoint is rather informative too: http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/cms1/Taipeh%20-%20Facial%20contour%20with%20HA%20and%20FS.ppt

[CK]

Not huge, but it's enough to make a decent cosmetic difference imo.

http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg

that's a huge change. definitely lucked out.

[Optimistic]

that's a huge change. definitely lucked out.

Ok, now why did he luck out? I've never read a first-hand account of anyone suffering reabsorption. Never seen a photo. All rumours. Yet every study says it doesn't happen.

Can anyone provide actual proof of why they think it's bad? I don't want to seem rude, but this entire forum keeps b*tching about nonsense. In this thread alone people are claiming HA paste is dangerous, ineffective, is reabsorbed. The exact opposite of what the numerous case studies demonstrate. The exact opposite of what one would expect given the actual make up of hydroxyapatite.

So please, please, can anyone just show me why they think HA paste is bad/ineffective/dangerous? I'm not here to hug Mommaerts' nuts, just to learn and make an informed decision.

[Lazlo]

Not huge, but it's enough to make a decent cosmetic difference imo.

http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg


This powerpoint is rather informative too: http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/cms1/Taipeh%20-%20Facial%20contour%20with%20HA%20and%20FS.ppt

how come the friggin slideshow didn't include any pics of the infraorbital augmentation? That would have been the real money shot!