Author Topic: Forward Head Posture  (Read 82488 times)

trigeminalneuralgia

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2012, 07:50:45 AM »
no problem!  you know what, i realized i DO do yoga but my own version of it.  i have to stretch out my pecs and lats daily.  they keep tightening up because my shoulder is so loose.  i'll check out that dvd.  is this it?  http://www.youtube.com/show?p=4_5RRJhaUYQ


 my thoracic spine used to be locked up so i need to keep that away.  i have tried the camel and cat (?) poses and they flared me up in the past.  when i first saw them, i was like oh wow..this is PERFECT for me, i have kyphosis.  but my nervous system hates my guts.  i can do them now but i dont think i should, it just feels too aggressive.  same goes with those foam rollers you see people stretching on.  it might be good for your avg person but my body hates it.  i actually injured my lower back, pins needles, etc. down my legs because i went too low on my back with it.  the scary thing about irritating your nerves is that when you do, you dont feel it immediately after or during unless it's REALLY bad, for me it's always hours later or the next day.

http://www.yogapoint.com/images/leg-movement3.jpg
i do that..i feel it in my pecs.  anything with my arms straight i feel in my lats. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46gWuodCBjg
this is a *good* example of what my pt and dr. osar keep talking about.  activating your longus colli muscle in your neck and not the scm.  i'm amazed at the amount of awful youtube videos.  clearly these people have never been in pain or they wouldn't be abusing their bodies.  my pt said i pretty much need to keep my neck like this as much as possible.  you get used to it after awhile.





neferkitti

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2012, 12:53:05 PM »
no problem!  you know what, i realized i DO do yoga but my own version of it.  i have to stretch out my pecs and lats daily.  they keep tightening up because my shoulder is so loose.  i'll check out that dvd.  is this it?  http://www.youtube.com/show?p=4_5RRJhaUYQ
my thoracic spine used to be locked up so i need to keep that away.  i have tried the camel and cat (?) poses and they flared me up in the past.  when i first saw them, i was like oh wow..this is PERFECT for me, i have kyphosis.  but my nervous system hates my guts.  i can do them now but i dont think i should, it just feels too aggressive.  same goes with those foam rollers you see people stretching on.  it might be good for your avg person but my body hates it.  i actually injured my lower back, pins needles, etc. down my legs because i went too low on my back with it.  the scary thing about irritating your nerves is that when you do, you dont feel it immediately after or during unless it's REALLY bad, for me it's always hours later or the day.


Popped in my DVD for the first time in a long time last night. I don't know if this would be the best routine for you now that I've reviewed. Might be too agressive. I modified some moves, avoiding any backward flexing of my neck and focused more on extending my spine. This straightened my posture (it usually does) and it has not pissed off my neck muscles, so far. Spine compression seems to make things worse for me. All is good, but I don't have EDS. What type do you have? There are so many.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 12:16:53 PM by neferkitti »

trigeminalneuralgia

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2012, 01:46:12 PM »
i haven't been officially dx'd

but everyone seems to think i have the hypermobile type.  my skin is fragile but not THAT fragile and if i had the vascular type i would be having heart problems etc by now.  when i was really low on magnesium is when my spine was the worst.  it's much much better now but i still get scared...


http://www.hypermobility.org/beighton.php

i can do all of those, except for putting my hands flat on the floor.   finding out that i have autonomic dysfunction and eds was a big AHA moment for me, "no you aren't crazy!!"

is an awesome blog about eds.
http://bitsywitheds.blogspot.com/


takling about tmj
http://bitsywitheds.blogspot.com/2012/04/ehlers-danlos-tmj.html

showed him my cervical spine MRI, and he explained why I get pain in the back of my eye, C-1, then C-0 effects the forehead, C-2 effects the cheek, and C-3 the jaw.
Then, he pulled the 4 xrays that had just been taken and explained when I open wide, I dislocate.  When I clench, I hit the nerves and ligaments that run through there.  When I'm relaxed, hitting the nerves, and with my teeth touching it had increased space.  The ligaments are really stretched out.
Because of all that instability I get headaches at the base of the skull, the top of the head, ear pain, ringing in the ears, "sinus infection like" symptms, the weirdest one for me is all the tooth pain (but no cavities to be found).

neferkitti

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2012, 11:58:37 AM »
i haven't been officially dx'd but everyone seems to think i have the hypermobile type.  my skin is fragile but not THAT fragile and if i had the vascular type i would be having heart problems etc by now.  when i was really low on magnesium is when my spine was the worst.  it's much much better now but i still get scared...

showed him my cervical spine MRI, and he explained why I get pain in the back of my eye, C-1, then C-0 effects the forehead, C-2 effects the cheek, and C-3 the jaw.
Then, he pulled the 4 xrays that had just been taken and explained when I open wide, I dislocate.  When I clench, I hit the nerves and ligaments that run through there.  When I'm relaxed, hitting the nerves, and with my teeth touching it had increased space.  The ligaments are really stretched out.
Because of all that instability I get headaches at the base of the skull, the top of the head, ear pain, ringing in the ears, "sinus infection like" symptms, the weirdest one for me is all the tooth pain (but no cavities to be found).


Geez, Trig. Do you feel your EDS is degenerative or can it be stabilized/improved with avoidance, lifestyle change and PT? How much of a problem was this in childhood/adolescence? Can muscle training help to off-set the effects of lax ligaments? I don't think I could handle headaches on a daily basis, though I do have chronic right side ear pain and a pulling sensation and vision blurriness on that same side. These are for a different reason than yours, but I can certainly emphasize with what you're going through.

I scored only one on the Beighton scoring system. This was for hands on floor, and I can only do this when warmed up and well stretched. Otherwise, this would be difficult.

Wonder how many athletes have at least some form of EDS where extra flexibility comes into play.

Krista

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2012, 12:13:51 PM »
Check out this website.   Has good videos on the effects of forward head posture.   Shows how the earlier it's corrected the better or it has devastating permanent effects.    posturevideos.com

neferkitti

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2012, 12:21:50 PM »
Check out this website.   Has good videos on the effects of forward head posture.   Shows how the earlier it's corrected the better or it has devastating permanent effects.    posturevideos.com

Thanks, Krista. Will check it out.

From personal experience, I find lifelong exercise, primarily with muscle conditioning, helps maintain a good posture. Other issues can come into play, of course.

trigeminalneuralgia

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2012, 10:17:01 AM »
Geez, Trig. Do you feel your EDS is degenerative or can it be stabilized/improved with avoidance, lifestyle change and PT? How much of a problem was this in childhood/adolescence? Can muscle training help to off-set the effects of lax ligaments? I don't think I could handle headaches on a daily basis, though I do have chronic right side ear pain and a pulling sensation and vision blurriness on that same side. These are for a different reason than yours, but I can certainly emphasize with what you're going through.

I scored only one on the Beighton scoring system.
This was for hands on floor, and I can only do this when warmed up and well stretched. Otherwise, this would be difficult.

Wonder how many athletes have at least some form of EDS where extra flexibility comes into play.

you are lucky!! lol  not really.  i dont think i get blurry vision?  that is very strange.  from my experience NOTHING compares to head/neck pain so i'm sure you can relate.

How much of a problem was this in childhood/adolescence?.............
that is a great question, i FEEL like eds is degenerative but they say it is not but honestly, nobody really knows much which is why it's called a "syndrome".  how is self-abuse not going to cause wear and tear :p  the muscle training is debatable too.  i believe it helps.  and even if it doesn't help that much, i'm going to keep doing strengthening because it gives me a sense of control.  i choose that over pain meds.  my right shoulder does this (to a lesser degree)

and the tx is neurontin?????  um, no don't think so!!  doctors are freakin clueless to this stuff, my shoulders are both winged and only one doctor looked at my shoulders said a little winged.  obv i have been giving myself whiplash but it took 12 doctors+3 physical therapists to even tell me hey you're abusing the s**t out of your neck, wear a neck brace for a little while.  i hope hope hte strengthening helps but i also have like post-injury neuropathy (from overstretching my neck).  my hands have been slightly numb now for 2 years despite all normal test results :(  it's why im such a lazy typist.  i really hope strengthening my shoulders fixes this but it might not.

let's see, during childhood..  my sx were clogged ears, i actually thought i had swimmers ear ALL year round, which i believe is from neck instability or tmj.  and i noticed my heart beat too fast.  i took dance classes and i was scrawny.  i never dislocated anything.  in the mornings i always felt like i was going to vomit..i think this is heart-autonimc related.

adolescence.  scrawnyness more apparent.  people started saying i had a really weak hand shake and liked petting my hands because they were so soft.  in the mornings i dont remember being as nauseous but i was very very spacey in the mornings and walking around.  caffeine/sugar addictionmakes autonomic issues worse.  people comment that i move a certain way, "willowy".  mostly spacey, sometimes anxious.  no pain.

early 20s.  spaceyness turns into straight up anxiety.  i think i have some kind of weird social phobia.  riding the train (when there's no seats and you have to stand) i feel really panicky and dizzy.  standing in lines same deal.  no pain. 

mid 20s--28.  body breaks down. arms start swelling up (no idea why) hurt my brachial plexus many many times without ever going to the doc.  then hurt my neck without going to the doc.  extra cracky, hips crack, sternum, clavicle, shoulders, neck.  autonomic nervous system messed up.  could barely walk around a grocery store since hurting my neck.  no train rides, if i wait in line, i have to kneel down and drink water CONSTANTLY or else i feel faint.  i am better than i was a year ago tho.

most people with eds dislocate so i imagine being an athlete would be very difficult.  especially with the autonomic dysfunction.  however, they'd make great contortionists, lol.  i'm sure they degree of their physical activity correlates with the degree of eds unless you're a real trooper.  mine isn't nearly as bad as some, especially if i had been dx'd early and strengthened. 


hormone fluctuations ive read can make your connective tissue more lax.

trigeminalneuralgia

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2012, 10:20:25 AM »
a good way to test your autonomic nervous system is to take your pulse and bp lying down after 5 minutes.  then immediately take it upon standing, if your bp drops, that's bad.  and if your hr increases by more than 30 beats.  that's bad too.  i think the two usually go together

Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS, also postural tachycardia syndrome) is a condition of dysautonomia,[1] to be more specific orthostatic intolerance, in which a change from the supine position to an upright position causes an abnormally large increase in heart rate, called tachycardia. Several studies show a decrease in cerebral blood flow with systolic and diastolic cerebral blood flow (CBF) velocity decreased 44% and 60%, respectively.[2] Patients with POTS have problems maintaining homeostasis when changing position, i.e. moving from one chair to another or reaching above their heads. Many patients also experience symptoms when stationary or even while lying down.

neferkitti

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2012, 03:03:34 PM »
doctors are freakin clueless to this stuff, my shoulders are both winged and only one doctor looked at my shoulders said a little winged.  obv i have been giving myself whiplash but it took 12 doctors+3 physical therapists to even tell me hey you're abusing the s**t out of your neck, wear a neck brace for a little while.  i hope hope hte strengthening helps but i also have like post-injury neuropathy (from overstretching my neck).  my hands have been slightly numb now for 2 years despite all normal test results :(  it's why im such a lazy typist.  i really hope strengthening my shoulders fixes this but it might not.
let's see, during childhood..  my sx were clogged ears, i actually thought i had swimmers ear ALL year round, which i believe is from neck instability or tmj.  and i noticed my heart beat too fast.  i took dance classes and i was scrawny.  i never dislocated anything.  in the mornings i always felt like i was going to vomit..i think this is heart-autonimc related.
adolescence.  scrawnyness more apparent.  people started saying i had a really weak hand shake and liked petting my hands because they were so soft.  in the mornings i dont remember being as nauseous but i was very very spacey in the mornings and walking around.  caffeine/sugar addictionmakes autonomic issues worse.  people comment that i move a certain way, "willowy".  mostly spacey, sometimes anxious.  no pain.
early 20s.  spaceyness turns into straight up anxiety.  i think i have some kind of weird social phobia.  riding the train (when there's no seats and you have to stand) i feel really panicky and dizzy.  standing in lines same deal.  no pain.  
mid 20s--28.  body breaks down. arms start swelling up (no idea why) hurt my brachial plexus many many times without ever going to the doc.  then hurt my neck without going to the doc.  extra cracky, hips crack, sternum, clavicle, shoulders, neck.  autonomic nervous system messed up.  could barely walk around a grocery store since hurting my neck.  no train rides, if i wait in line, i have to kneel down and drink water CONSTANTLY or else i feel faint.  i am better than i was a year ago tho.
most people with eds dislocate so i imagine being an athlete would be very difficult.  especially with the autonomic dysfunction.  however, they'd make great contortionists, lol.  i'm sure they degree of their physical activity correlates with the degree of eds unless you're a real trooper.  mine isn't nearly as bad as some, especially if i had been dx'd early and strengthened.  


How does water help with your dizziness? Your anxiety seems related to your dizziness or the expectation of a blackout/dizziness. I don’t know. Your condition is complicated, so this is just a shot in the dark. My mother, siblings and I have to keep well hydrating otherwise we get a BP drop. Drinking water alone doesn’t help much. Some solutes have to be present. My mother has the worst of it, and over the past couple of years she had lost a lot of her ability to function when standing. She had dizziness, shortness of breath and fatigue. Doctors told her to drink more water, that she was just dehydrated. She was drinking quite a bit, but it only helped a little. I believe now that plain water just ran right through her. Then she was hospitalized late last year for a food allergy and was kept over because her BP was far too low and it was difficult getting her numbers up with a drip. They did get it up to 80 over something (can’t recall diastolic). It was still pretty low. So, she was sent to cardiology. Tested her for everything. Nothing abnormal was found. The cardiologist, completely stumped, prescribed some salt water throughout the day (don’t try this w/out a cardio/kidney workup). It worked. Now I can’t get the woman slow down and take a load off  :D. She has quite a bit of energy now, she just couldn’t hold on to fluids without a little help. Same with me to a lesser degree. So, I try to incorporate some salt and/or electrolytes and avoid drinking too much pure drinking water. Dehydration and low blood volume/anemia leads to a pounding heart in my case. Getting these under control takes care of this. Again, your case is complicated so don't know if this is a solution for you.  

I don’t know about your arm edema. That is odd. A family member had her lymph nodes surgically removed (breast cancer) and edema resulted in the one arm. The numbness in your hands sounds like nerve damage. My mother has some of the same in one hand due to an auto accident related shoulder/nerve injury. She has sensory loss but full dexterity with that hand. There is, however, complete muscle wasting between her thumb and index finger. She sounds like a wreck (lol) but she’s really quite healthy, knock on wood. Do you see unusual muscle loss/wasting? I’d say wear a neck brace when you can, just to allow for some healing/rest, but that’s just me.

My eye blurring is weird. It goes along with my right side muscle spasms, so I believe it’s related. Plus, I also have the sensation of pulling on that eye. Oddly, however, my spasms have not been too bad since I recently started taking antibiotics (unrelated reason). This is the third time that I’ve been on these over the past few years, and I always get much improvement with eye, ear and joint pain and spasms. Hoping that this is just a coincidence.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 03:41:59 PM by neferkitti »

neferkitti

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2012, 03:04:28 PM »
a good way to test your autonomic nervous system is to take your pulse and bp lying down after 5 minutes.  then immediately take it upon standing, if your bp drops, that's bad.  and if your hr increases by more than 30 beats.  that's bad too.  i think the two usually go together

I'll try this. Thanks!

trigeminalneuralgia

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2012, 09:49:53 AM »
for your sake i really hope the antibiotics are a coincidence too!!  i have a love/hate relationship with antibiotics.  mostly hate.  bacterial infections really scare me.

your mom is smart she had the kidney/cardio work up.  i have had the basic kidney test which was normal.  when my mag was so low i wanted to see a nephrologist and they were a b*tch about seeing me because my levels were normal so i didn't go!  i need to see a cardio but i keep putting it off.  there's a tilt table test tehy do for fainting, your mom might've had that done?

i did drink salt water for awhile.  i swapped salt for my caffeine addiction >_< I am much smarter (higher hr and bp i guess!) with caffeine in my system.  and i'm not as thirsty.  it's good to drink water but at the rate i'm doing it, you're right, not good.  your mom sounds like me.  flushing all of her electrolytes out!

i've done a "salt" fast where i did't have much salt (impossible to completely avoid it) for 24/hrs.  and then i tested my salt levels and a hormone called aldosterone..  "It acts mainly on the distal tubules and collecting ducts of the nephron, the functional unit of the kidney, to cause the conservation of sodium, secretion of potassium, "  so anyways, flip side, low aldosterone is correlated to low salt and high potassium.  i have that.  not freakishly low or else i'd be in bad shape.  i also worry that with the neck pain (and you're totally right, just the ANTICIPATION of getting a neck spasm, makes me anxious)...  my bp sometimes actually gets high.  or i should say my diastolic? bp.  but it only happens sometimes.


sounds like your mom injured her brachial plexus too?  That is bad, if she had muscle wasting in her hands.  My hands are normal but my shoulders are emaciated.  i have no rotator cuff muscles and my right shoulder wings a LOT more than my left, which would mean i hurt my long thoracic nerve.  did she get dizziness after the accident?  how long did it take for her to feel like her old self?  i overstretched my neck in october of 2010 and hurt my shoulders in march 2010 :(  the neck bracing does help.  i wish i had known about it sooner!!  that is reassuring your mom had such a severe injury and she is healthy!


the edema i expperience is very subtle and depends on what position im in.  my pt has had several theories about it

--rsd/crps "Complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS), formerly Begum Syndrome, is a chronic progressive disease characterized by severe pain, swelling and changes in the skin. It often affects an arm or a leg and may spread to another part of the body and is associated with dysregulation of the autonomic nervous system resulting in multiple functional loss, impairment and disability."  um yeah, so she is wrong about this.  i've read forums about people with crps and they all live in snuggies because they can't stand harsh fabric touching them and sweat excessively, turn red, etc etc.  it really doesn't describe me at all.

--my c7 transverse process (bone in the side of my neck) is too big.  i had a cervical mri and they said it was normal.  and then i got another person to look at the mri and they said it was normal but my pt insists the bone is big.  so i watched these youtube vids on how to read a cervical mri.  just the basics.  and to me it looks kind of big too!!  but what do i know.  this is a bird's eye view of it, the transverse process is the part that looks like a leaf.
 

having a big bone or just winged shoulders and numbness and edema would mean i have thoracic outlet syndrome "Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS) is pain, numbness, tingling, and/or weakness in the arm and hand due to pressure against the nerves or blood vessels that supply the arm. It is due to tight muscles (my pec minor!!), ligaments, bands, or bony abnormalities in the thoracic outlet area of the body (big c7?), which lies just behind the collar bone. Pressure on the nerves is the problem more than 90% of the time, but occasionally the artery or vein is involved."

^anyways, that's what i think i have.  i was going to demand a brachial plexus mri but my pt said it would probably come back normal

trigeminalneuralgia

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2012, 09:51:11 AM »
I'll try this. Thanks!

yeah you should!  if you have the edges of your vision get dark after standing, its probably the bp dropping.  that's my experience

trigeminalneuralgia

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2012, 12:14:17 PM »
http://www.trxtraining.com/



suspension equipment is cool, it's what im using in pt. 

neferkitti

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2012, 06:23:21 PM »
your mom is smart she had the kidney/cardio work up.  i have had the basic kidney test which was normal.  when my mag was so low i wanted to see a nephrologist and they were a b*tch about seeing me because my levels were normal so i didn't go!  i need to see a cardio but i keep putting it off.  there's a tilt table test tehy do for fainting, your mom might've had that done?
Well, she didn't really have a choice. She does not like going to the doctor, and rarely goes, but her low BP freaked me out. I thought she was in heart failure. She didn't have a tilt test, but they did a full cardiac and kidney workup. Perhaps a visit to an endocrinologist wouldn't hurt now that you mention aldosterone. This may explain a lot. I don't know if I could get her to go, though. She complains about her cardiology follow ups.

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i did drink salt water for awhile.  i swapped salt for my caffeine addiction >_< I am much smarter (higher hr and bp i guess!) with caffeine in my system.  and i'm not as thirsty.  it's good to drink water but at the rate i'm doing it, you're right, not good.  your mom sounds like me.  flushing all of her electrolytes out!
I love caffeine, too! I've had to cut most of it out since it pisses off my jaw  :-[. Turkish coffee was my favorite. Makes my head rocket right off  :D. Flushing minerals out is so not good for the body. I think you had mentioned somewhere else that minerals were underrated within the vitamin/supplement industry. I think that because of this, there is not much publicity, so people forget their importance.
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sounds like your mom injured her brachial plexus too?  That is bad, if she had muscle wasting in her hands.  My hands are normal but my shoulders are emaciated.  i have no rotator cuff muscles and my right shoulder wings a LOT more than my left, which would mean i hurt my long thoracic nerve.  did she get dizziness after the accident?  how long did it take for her to feel like her old self?  i overstretched my neck in october of 2010 and hurt my shoulders in march 2010 :(  the neck bracing does help.  i wish i had known about it sooner!!  that is reassuring your mom had such a severe injury and she is healthy!
I'll have to ask her again, but I do think it was in the brachial plexus region. I don't recall if she had dizziness afterwards. I was in the U.S. and she was in Holland at the time. She did have extensive PT for about a year then was advised to move to a warmer climate, so she moved back to the States. Cold weather aggravated her shoulder. After therapy and moving back, she seemed fine. Every so often she would complain of stiffness and some localized pain, but a steam sauna and/or hot tub seemed to take care of it. She did little to zero PT here in the U.S. The muscle wasting is only confined to that small area between her thumb and index finger. The muscles appear normal along the rest of that arm. Very strange, though.

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having a big bone or just winged shoulders and numbness and edema would mean i have thoracic outlet syndrome "Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS) is pain, numbness, tingling, and/or weakness in the arm and hand due to pressure against the nerves or blood vessels that supply the arm. It is due to tight muscles (my pec minor!!), ligaments, bands, or bony abnormalities in the thoracic outlet area of the body (big c7?), which lies just behind the collar bone. Pressure on the nerves is the problem more than 90% of the time, but occasionally the artery or vein is involved."
Depending on the degree of edema, this alone could put pressure on the nerves, I would think. Does your hand numbness coincide with arm edema?
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anyways, that's what i think i have.  i was going to demand a brachial plexus mri but my pt said it would probably come back normal
I would ask, just to rule in/out the unknown(s). This way you can focus on PT that is most helpful.

trigeminalneuralgia

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Re: Forward Head Posture
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2012, 10:24:04 AM »
you guys beat me to it!  yes raynauds.  i dont understand i didnt have it before that i coudl tell.  over the last couple of years i definitely started getting it, not purple hands but white hands or usually, one hand will darker pink and my veins will bulge and i can feel the blood pooling.  yuck. 

Other (causes)

    Physical Trauma, such as that sustained in auto accident or other traumatic events
    Lyme Disease
    hypothyroidism
    cryoglobulinemia
    malignancy
    reflex sympathetic dystrophy
    carpal tunnel syndrome
    Magnesium Deficiency
    Multiple Sclerosis
    Erythromelalgia




+EDS  im screwed