Plastic Surgery?

[PloskoPlus]

How did he find a woman to have sex with then?

Looks were less important back then. Women could not provide for themselves, so being a good provider was all that mattered.

[anglii]

I had a minimal class 111, jaw got advanced, I now have more angular cheeks then before, so yes it does impact cheeks, at least upper jaw surgery does

I agree, my cheeks definitely changed for the worse after double jaw surgery. The bones may not change but the muscles supporting the cheeks definitely do. People should realize that jaw surgery is an extreme procedure that is barbaric and antiquated and surgeons either have no clue about the long term effects on the face as a whole or they don't care. It should be reserved for only the most severe cases of deformity. Other options are available that don't carry the high risk of permanent disfigurement with better functional and esthetic results (i.e. Neuromuscular dentistry)

[earl25]

How did he find a woman to have sex with then?

women being into looks is a pretty new thing . Before a womans first concern was survival and being able to eat. The guys looks really didn't come into lay much.  Now women have their own money, careers etc. They don't need a man to survive. So now they can chose who they want. I know a lot of short unattractive male doctors who cant get a date for their life. 20+ years ago they would have been able to get any woman they wanted. In a way its a reverse of what ugly women went through for all these generations. They were cast aside as inferior genes, now its ugly men's turn.

Back to the environment discussion. For years I sit to sit and stir over how I was brought up. I had a pacifier until I was 4 which is aweful for jaw development, I was an extremely picky eater so was very underweight all my childhood (parents didn't put effort into getting me to eat), and I had difficulty breathing through my nose so I  breathed through my mouth most of the time.  Now that  think about although all these things  definitely didn't help, I now don't think it really made that much of a difference.  I mean yeah it definitely didn't help , but at the end of the day I resemble that relative. even if I had an ideal environment maybe it would of made a slight difference(so my jaw would have been( recessed 5mm instead of 6), but it wouldn't have done anything significant.
You have to remember all these  models male and female grew up breathing the same air, eating the same processed food ,living in the same place as the people with maxilla/cranio issues.  You can take a  baby brad pitt raise him on all the processed foods in the world, give him a pacifier until 5, he will still be good looking when he grows up.

[overbiter]

You have to remember all these  models male and female grew up breathing the same air, eating the same processed food ,living in the same place as the people with maxilla/cranio issues.  You can take a  baby brad pitt raise him on all the processed foods in the world, give him a pacifier until 5, he will still be good looking when he grows up.

Yes, and environment can only affect someone in a negative way. It can only exacerbate underlying problems. A good environment can never make someone exceed their genetic potential. If your genetics are garbage then a good environment will do nothing to improve your situation.

[earl25]

Yes, and environment can only affect someone in a negative way. It can only exacerbate underlying problems. A good environment can never make someone exceed their genetic potential. If your genetics are garbage then a good environment will do nothing to improve your situation.

although i dont buy it i will admit if i ever had kids i would try all this stuff. vitamin k2, unprocesed foods ,fight mouth breathing, orthodontic pacifier until 2, hey it cant hurt

[earl25]

why do I want kids, is an interesting question and one I do wrestle with. I do realize its very very likely they will look like me or some variation, my hope is they would like my future wife's family. Unattractive people can have kids ,but that's not the norm. for the most part attractive or at least normal looking people have attractive kids while ugly people have ugly kids.  but on the other hand I want kids and I feel a life without kids is worthless. Also these issuies are getting easier to deal with. compare 2014 to 30 years ago. My BSSO surgeon told me when he first started doing this surgery back in the late 60's this was one dangerous surgery,but now thanks to advances in anesthesia, monitoring etc its very safe.

we as a society are more looks oriented today than ever. Just look at tv. the men who headlines tv shows back in the 70s wouldn't even get into the cast today, leading men like judd hirsh,gabe Kaplan etc.  Now even the "nerd" is a somewhat built good looking guy just with glasses on.

I don't think usa will turn into korea with ugly people getting surgery. most ugly people don't even realize theyre ugly or fully grasp it. And if they do a lot just commit suicide. There was a girl in the paper by me recently who killed herself after people called her ugly

[joesun]

anglii,

your whole story sounds fishy to me. Every time you post on a thread you have the same sob story and in the end you desperately try to promote 'neuromuscular dentistry' .

It'd be nice if we see some real evidence and perhaps post some pics for us... other than that you're nothing but a clever marketing ploy.

And you think orthodontestry and maxillofacial surgery is based on science? Show me the evidence? I've only had my orthotics on for 3 weeks. For the first time since my double jaw surgery 30 years ago have I bean able to chew normally. That is: equally on both sides and straight up and down. Before I could only chew on my right side and my jaw would be all over the place during the process causing excessive wear on my teeth. 

Just because asymmetries are ubiquitous in western society doesn't mean asymmetry is normal. Research conducted over a period of 25 years by Weston Price showed that it isn't genetics causing all the issues we're seeing with crowded teeth and misaligned jaws but a nutrient deficiency during prenatal development when the dental/nasal arch is formed during early pregnancy. See http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/0062320041

[Tiny]

women being into looks is a pretty new thing . Before a womans first concern was survival and being able to eat. The guys looks really didn't come into play much. 

Actually, it is an old thing - a very old thing.  It is a myth that women don't care about looks.  They do, and it is wired into the genes.  There was a study done not that long ago that tracked womens' eye movements when shown 3 male figures.  The 3 figures had different heights and hip:waist:shoulder ratios and the women pretty much ignored the smaller, less 'masculine' shaped figure.  (The study actually focusses on penis size but I think that is erroneous because it's really not the first the thing that is apparent when you look at this picture, the authors just wanted something new to publish. This thing is basically the female equivalent of men in general preferring low waist-to-hip ratio etc)

Here is the image -


Then you've got all the stuff about women being on the pill (ie. their body believes it is pregnant) preferring less masculine guys that they would if they were not on the pill, and ovulating (ie. fertile) women preferring more masculine guys than non-ovulating ladies, etc. etc. etc......

As I've mentioned before, the reason we have lots of crappy teeth and jaws now and we may not had such bad teeth/jaws prior to the neolithic is due to genetics as much as diet.  Lots of s**tty genes are able to survive now while in the neolithic they wouldn't have had a chance.  That is due to a variety of factors (and one of those factors is that we are a lot more monogamous than we used to be.  We didn't have gorilla-style harems but we didn't have nearly so many instances of women having the majority of their kids by the same father like we do now and there was more freedom to chose your desired 'mating strategy' - whereas in more modern times (post neolithic revolution) we have generally been forced into long-term (and therefore more monogamous) mating (or at least reproducing) strategies.  Now, perhaps, we are starting to see a slightly shift back....)

I find it interesting comparing Europe (especially northern Europe) to where I live now, in the Middle East.  Society here is incredibly shallow and everyone wears tons of makeup and spends a lot of time and effort grooming.  The standards are so much higher than they are in the UK and compared to places like Germany, Austria, Denmark, Norway...wow.  I feel like the women there bring a lot more than their looks to the table so they don't have to waste so much time and effort making sure they look impeccable.  Living here feels a bit like living in the 1950s (or the 1550s at times....)

[PloskoPlus]

I find it interesting comparing Europe (especially northern Europe) to where I live now, in Dubai.  Society here is incredibly shallow and everyone wears tons of makeup and spends a lot of time and effort grooming.  The standards are so much higher than they are in the UK and compared to places like Germany, Austria, Denmark, Norway...wow.  I feel like the women there bring a lot more than their looks to the table so they don't have to waste so much time and effort making sure they look impeccable.  Living here feels a bit like living in the 1950s (or the 1550s at times....)

Aren't Gulf Arabs incredibly inbred?  BTW, I wonder what effect UV exposure has on dentition quality.  Stereotypical bad teeth seem to be a Northern European trait.

[earl25]

also they say chicken liver is a good source of vit k2. chicken liver is a traditional food eaten by jews especially on th sabbath. its cooked then chopped and called chopped liver. i never ate it as a kid but my parents did (also while i was in the womb). maxillo issuez are very common to european jews. with all the liver and other organ meats they traditionally ate they shoild have had enogh k2

[nrelax11]

Is vitamin k2, calcium and vit. D good for post jaw surgery recovery?

[earl25]

yes but get liquid versions

[nrelax11]

K, cool. Its on my checklist for items get before my surgery.

[LoveofScotch]

It actually really doesn't matter if you take fat soluble vitamins in liquid form. Taking them in an oil base (which can be either in capsules or liquid, NOT tablets) is potentially helpful, but even that is not necessary. What is necessary, is making sure you take ALL fat soluble vitamins with a meal containing fat. This allows them to be optimally absorbed.

[earl25]

after jaw surgsry liquid is better since your banded shut