HAIKU's VIDEO WE SHOULD ALL SEE

[Lazlo]

Haiku very kindly posted this excellent video and I think anyone who has questions about their occlusions, orthodontic treatment etc. should take a look at this. Especially you guys who were wondering about childhood growth.

He also says the decision to do extractions is taught as a matter of mm. He said that he believes that in fact the decision to do extractions should be done based on an analysis of the facial profile. SO in a case where the facial profile is good, he may extract for extreme crowding, but with a lot of crowding, and a poor facial profile, he may in fact decide to NOT extract. He also says the criteria for classification for alignment are all flawed, you need to measure the maxilla not just to mandible, but the anterior cranial base first, etc. etc. "and thsi sway you get a much better understanding of facial beauty." THis guy is brilliant.

Thank you Haiku


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMGtcYXp95Q#

[Lazlo]

you've got to see part 2 as well he talks about how the analysis for good bites is made according to verticals that do not take into account anything to do with facial beauty, which is why these systems are terrible....

[Lazlo]

"on arc analysis patients who are deemed to full by traditional analysis are in fact right on the money."  (i.e. on traditional analysis they would do procedures such as appliances, extractions etc. to bring them in like with traditional
norms).

[Lazlo]

He did a project at a modelling agency --took cephs to determine which models would grow into the facially most beautiful "you can quantify a good looking face, don't think beauty is subjective."

[Lazlo]

f**king fascinating. amongst the top 10 models he did cephs of their mandible was in line with the "facial arc" but according to thraditional orthodontics they were protrusive and would have been recommended to have retractive orthodontics!!!

[Lazlo]

okay, at the end of part II he give the criteria for "a good looking face". I don't understand it all cause I'm just getting through with it fast, but it had to with all the different planes and height. Let's figures this out.

Celticcavegirl --I think you might be the technically brightest amongst us all so if you watch the video and want to produce a layman's summary it would be much appreciated. A lot in the vids of interest to you as well since he focuses on female beauty a fair bit.

[Tiny]

I've heard of this 'arc of beauty' before

Anyway, beauty is mathematical and based on proportions and symmetry.  There is a site/paper somewhere where they calculate the ideal proportions to create this overlay mask.  I think the people who are 'subjectively' beautiful fall very closely into these proportions but have an one exaggerated feature.  Everyone else - no, it's not that subjective

Models tend to have very similar features - strong and high cheekbones, strong gonial angles, stong mandible, full lips, arched eyebrows, smallish nosewomen), and 'correct' proportions in facial height, width and positions of features etc etc

Will watch the vid when I am back in my flat, because it's Friday and I'm at the pool smoking shisha 

[Lazlo]

I've heard of this 'arc of beauty' before

Anyway, beauty is mathematical and based on proportions and symmetry.  There is a site/paper somewhere where they calculate the ideal proportions to create this overlay mask.  I think the people who are 'subjectively' beautiful fall very closely into these proportions but have an one exaggerated feature.  Everyone else - no, it's not that subjective

Models tend to have very similar features - strong and high cheekbones, strong gonial angles, stong mandible, full lips, arched eyebrows, smallish nosewomen), and 'correct' proportions in facial height, width and positions of features etc etc

Will watch the vid when I am back in my flat, because it's Friday and I'm at the pool smoking shisha 

thanks if you learn more about the "arc of beauty" let us know!

[Lazlo]

here is Haiku's response to the video he posted since I've started a thread on this topic

:

"  I understood everything he said and i know he is right but unfortunately not many traditional orthos will agree with him. I believe they are too lazy and they do not want to "update their techniques". We need more people like him, we need someone who wants to improve our lives, not the opposite. Most of them care only about money tho.."
 

[Haiku]

I really envy people who are lucky to get treatment for someone like Derek Mahony.Long story short:  I've been wearing braces for 4 years (Im still wearing them) and i know it was my fault for wearing them such a long time since i did not agree with my ortho's plan (and unfortunately i could not change the ortho since everyone in my area is corrupted). After 2 years my teeth were straight. Then my ortho started to apply other stuff into my mouth like rubber bands or power chains to retract my upper incisors. I would end up arriving home and remove all these stuff from my mouth  (sounds crazy i know) because i felt that what she is doing is just wrong. My bite was almost edge to edge and i asked myself "what the heck is she trying to do?" I already explained her that when i eat, my mandible is forced to move back in order to chew the food well, and this was causing me pain. Then i found out about John Mew's work..and to be honest, the TRUTH caused me a lot of pain. Then i started reading more and more, and i felt helpless. Can you imagine that someone like my ortho is teaching students? (anyway i hate to talk about my case, so i will just end up here).
  I've met someone who ended up treating himself (he also sent an email to John Mew). He had all 4 premolars extracted and now, after 1.5 years his spaces are opened. Anyway, I'm not brave enough to do that by myself. I'm really glad that this video enlightened some of you. I wish i could do more.

[Lazlo]

I really envy people who are lucky to get treatment for someone like Derek Mahony.Long story short:  I've been wearing braces for 4 years (Im still wearing them) and i know it was my fault for wearing them such a long time since i did not agree with my ortho's plan (and unfortunately i could not change the ortho since everyone in my area is corrupted). After 2 years my teeth were straight. Then my ortho started to apply other stuff into my mouth like rubber bands or power chains to retract my upper incisors. I would end up arriving home and remove all these stuff from my mouth  (sounds crazy i know) because i felt that what she is doing is just wrong. My bite was almost edge to edge and i asked myself "what the heck is she trying to do?" I already explained her that when i eat, my mandible is forced to move back in order to chew the food well, and this was causing me pain. Then i found out about John Mew's work..and to be honest, the TRUTH caused me a lot of pain. Then i started reading more and more, and i felt helpless. Can you imagine that someone like my ortho is teaching students? (anyway i hate to talk about my case, so i will just end up here).
  I've met someone who ended up treating himself (he also sent an email to John Mew). He had all 4 premolars extracted and now, after 1.5 years his spaces are opened. Anyway, I'm not brave enough to do that by myself. I'm really glad that this video enlightened some of you. I wish i could do more.

you also had premolars extracted?

[Haiku]

"I really envy people who are lucky to get treatment FROM (not for) someone like dr. Mahony" (sorry for typos)

  I had only 2 upper premolars extracted and i don't even know why. Before i started the treatment one premolar was missing and i told her that i want to have an implant there (i had a class 1 malocclusion and both arches had almost the same millimeters of crowding). I guess she didn't pay attention to it. She said: let's remove the other premolar because everything will be fine. I did not say no. I was naive, i did not know anything about orthodontics. On my right side the space is not fully closed and fortunately my profile did not change  but now I'm having functional problems: jaw and neck pain (when my lower jaw is relaxed my back teeth don't touch). Anyway, it seems that traditional orthos like straight profiles/flat faces. Most of them won't even ask if you are a mouth breather or pay attention to your posture.

[x]

can you guys cliffs it?

any info to take away as a non-extraction patient?

[Lazlo]

can you guys cliffs it?

any info to take away as a non-extraction patient?

no you should watch the whole thing, it has a lot of interesting ideas and theories and stuff and you'll learn a lot. it's not long will go by in like 20 minutes. seriously, watch it.

[x]

no you should watch the whole thing, it has a lot of interesting ideas and theories and stuff and you'll learn a lot. it's not long will go by in like 20 minutes. seriously, watch it.

well answer my second question, does it pertain to non-extractions too?

it says it's a 5 part video series