jawsurgeryforums.com
Surgeon Information => Surgeon Reviews and Leads => Topic started by: Austinou88 on December 29, 2018, 04:06:15 AM
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I came across this website after looking up a doctor that is in my health insurances network.
They seem to do it all, "Le Fort I, BSSO, Bimax, Genioplasty, SARME, CCW".
And they have some incredible before/after results.
Website is: https://www.jawcenter.la/everything-you-need-to-know-about-jaw-surgery/ (https://www.jawcenter.la/everything-you-need-to-know-about-jaw-surgery/)
Anyone heard of them?
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I came across this website after looking up a doctor that is in my health insurances network.
They seem to do it all, "Le Fort I, BSSO, Bimax, Genioplasty, SARME, CCW".
And they have some incredible before/after results.
Website is: https://www.jawcenter.la/everything-you-need-to-know-about-jaw-surgery/ (https://www.jawcenter.la/everything-you-need-to-know-about-jaw-surgery/)
Anyone heard of them?
That girl's photos are misleading. (Schendel's place - so not surprising.) Stay away.
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That girl's photos are misleading. (Schendel's place - so not surprising.) Stay away.
Yikes. Thanks for the warning.
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Shady Jacobson's place, too. Don't go there.
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Looks like they got another doctor on staff there too (Calvert) who did something deemed as 'shady' but the Attorney General dismissed the charges (insurance fraud, perjury which could have resulted in a prison rap). However he made clear dismissal did not mean he was 'innocent' of the charges.
"Orange County Prosecution
.....The Orange County District Attorney’s Office in November 2013 charged Calvert with one felony count each of medical insurance fraud, manufacturing documents, and perjury. It dropped the prosecution in April 2014 after the doctor agreed to pay restitution to patients in an amount that was not disclosed.
It was alleged that in 2009, he performed unauthorized and damaging surgery on a man—identified as “John Doe”—in addition to the rhinoplasty (“nose job”) he had requested, billing his insurance company for the unnecessary procedures in an amount exceeding $40,000, and fabricating documents to support the fraudulent claims. Prosecutors also charged that Calvert lied in a deposition when sued by Doe.
The Register quoted Orange County Deputy District Attorney Shaddi Kamiabipour as saying of the dismissal of charges:
“We’re not dealing with a situation of me dismissing the case because he’s innocent. The reason it was done is it appeared to be a reasonably isolated situation, and he agreed to make corrections. And he is not necessarily a bad surgeon.”
ref= http://www.metnews.com/articles/2018/calvert120618.htm LAST PARAGRAPH of the article
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Not surprising at all.
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Not surprising at all.
He later put out his own press releases saying he was 'exonerated' (by the dismissal)--implcation being he was 'innocent' of the charges or that they didn't find the charges true.
exonerate*: to show or state that someone or something is not guilty of something.
The dismissal neither meant he was 'exonerated' nor that the charges were untrue. It just meant the AG gave him a BREAK because he offered some RESTITUTION and correction and was not deemed a 'bad doctor'.
So, some 'shadyness' comes through by his putting out press releases that he was 'exonerated' of the charges. Perhaps that's why the AG needed to make clear:
“We’re not dealing with a situation of me dismissing the case because he’s innocent. The reason it was done is it appeared to be a reasonably isolated situation, and he agreed to make corrections. And he is not necessarily a bad surgeon.”
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Funny.
He's "not necessarily a good surgeon", either, by that logic.
It's kind of like instant replay in football. "The call on the field stands" doens't mean it was the right call; just that they didn't have video evidence to overturn it.
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Funny.
He's "not necessarily a good surgeon", either, by that logic.
It's kind of like instant replay in football. "The call on the field stands" doens't mean it was the right call; just that they didn't have video evidence to overturn it.
Some more tell tale signs of 'shadiness'.
In this one, this doc partnered up with a patient to launch a biz idea he (the doc) had where the biz savvy patient helped him get a biz idea off the ground. Later, the doc told the partner he wanted to nix this biz endevour and bought out the partner's share for 3 grand. Partner took it because he trusted the doc was nixing going forward with the biz idea. Meanwhile the doc was building up the biz idea and was NOT nixing it. So the article is about the partner suing him for fraud and misrepresentation.
That whole website looks pretty savvy as in ENTREPRENEURSHIP and MARKETING which may explain why the OP found it high on the search engines.
http://trendmag2.trendoffset.com/publication/?i=251965&article_id=1968373&view=articleBrowser&ver=html5#{%22issue_id%22:251965,%22view%22:%22articleBrowser%22,%22article_id%22:%221968373%22}
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This Calvert fella also sued someone for writing a bad review. I didn't read into the specifics, just commenting that he sued a former patient.
https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/2018/b282984.html
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STAY AWAY AT ALL COSTS.
SCHENDEL AND JACOBSON ARE COMPLETE LIARS AND THEIR RESULTS ARE LOWER THAN SUBPAR.
I KNOW I CONSULTED WITH JACOBSON AND SCHENDEL EXTENSIVELY AND WAS ABOUT TO HAVE AN OPERATION WITH THEM UNTIL I FOUND OUT THEY HAD BEEN LYING ABOUT SEVERAL THINGS. JACOBSON IS ONE OF THE EVIL PEOPLE YOU WILL EVERY MEET I'M NOT JOKING HE OVERSAW MY ORTHODONTIC WORK FOR A WHILE AND HE MADE MY BITE WORSE. THEN WHEN I ASKED HIM AND SCHENDEL TO CLARIFY THE WORK THEY WOULD DO ON ME HE SHUT ME OFF AND STOLE OVER 5000 DOLLARS OF MY MONEY FOR HAVING DONE NOTHING. (HE NEVER EVEN PUT BRACES ON ME, THIS WAS JUST FOR A CONSULTATION!!!!!).
YOU'RE f**kED IF YOU GO TO THIS PLACE. CALVERT IS ALSO WELL KNOWN FOR BEING SUED BY PATIENTS AS IS JACOBSON AND SCHENDEL. I KNOW OF A FEW CASES WHERE SCHENDEL AND JACOBSON GAVE PATIENTS SOME HUSH MONEY SO THEY WOULD NOT PROCEED WITH COURT CASES FOR DISFIGURING THEM. THEY'RE ALL ABOUT MARKETING AND SQUEEZING YOU FOR MONEY. I AM SO GLAD I NEVER WENT TO THESE CHARLATANS.
IF YOU WANT A GOOD, SOLID RESULT DOUGLAS SINN in TEXAS is WHO I ENDED UP GOING TO AND HE WAS SOLID. GUNSON/ARNETT ARE LIKE SAINTS COMPARED TO THESE f**kERS. DAMN, EVEN A COMPETENT JAW SURGEON IN YOUR AREA WILL BE MORE HONEST AND PROVIDE A BETTER RESULT THAN THESE MONEY-HUNGRY HACKS: DORFMAN, JACOBSON, SCHENDEL CALVERT. Oh my god and Jacobson is the evil shyster behind the whole operation. He doesn't know a thing about jaw surgery and sucks patients in with this nice-guy smarmy routine. That is all until you have a problem. Then he will ghost you like a satanic villain.
You think I'm going overboard here? No, you all know I'm one of the most experienced members on this board who has gone through surgery and come out the other side. ANd I can tell you ANYTHING TO DO WITH JACOBSON will lead to you suffering greatly. I could not overexaggerate.
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Shady Jacobson's place, too. Don't go there.
Wow. Yeah, I think I'm going to stay away from all of them and stick with who I was originally planning to see.
Where there is one or two faulty doctors, there is bound to be more. Especially considering they all work together!
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Looks like they got another doctor on staff there too (Calvert) who did something deemed as 'shady' but the Attorney General dismissed the charges (insurance fraud, perjury which could have resulted in a prison rap). However he made clear dismissal did not mean he was 'innocent' of the charges.
"Orange County Prosecution
.....The Orange County District Attorney’s Office in November 2013 charged Calvert with one felony count each of medical insurance fraud, manufacturing documents, and perjury. It dropped the prosecution in April 2014 after the doctor agreed to pay restitution to patients in an amount that was not disclosed.
It was alleged that in 2009, he performed unauthorized and damaging surgery on a man—identified as “John Doe”—in addition to the rhinoplasty (“nose job”) he had requested, billing his insurance company for the unnecessary procedures in an amount exceeding $40,000, and fabricating documents to support the fraudulent claims. Prosecutors also charged that Calvert lied in a deposition when sued by Doe.
The Register quoted Orange County Deputy District Attorney Shaddi Kamiabipour as saying of the dismissal of charges:
“We’re not dealing with a situation of me dismissing the case because he’s innocent. The reason it was done is it appeared to be a reasonably isolated situation, and he agreed to make corrections. And he is not necessarily a bad surgeon.”
ref= http://www.metnews.com/articles/2018/calvert120618.htm LAST PARAGRAPH of the article
Holy Crap! Even if it was an isolated incident, they should have taken his license to practice away?
What's a good way of running a background check on surgeons, because I usually only look into there reviews.
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STAY AWAY AT ALL COSTS.
SCHENDEL AND JACOBSON ARE COMPLETE LIARS AND THEIR RESULTS ARE LOWER THAN SUBPAR.
I KNOW I CONSULTED WITH JACOBSON AND SCHENDEL EXTENSIVELY AND WAS ABOUT TO HAVE AN OPERATION WITH THEM UNTIL I FOUND OUT THEY HAD BEEN LYING ABOUT SEVERAL THINGS. JACOBSON IS ONE OF THE EVIL PEOPLE YOU WILL EVERY MEET I'M NOT JOKING HE OVERSAW MY ORTHODONTIC WORK FOR A WHILE AND HE MADE MY BITE WORSE. THEN WHEN I ASKED HIM AND SCHENDEL TO CLARIFY THE WORK THEY WOULD DO ON ME HE SHUT ME OFF AND STOLE OVER 5000 DOLLARS OF MY MONEY FOR HAVING DONE NOTHING. (HE NEVER EVEN PUT BRACES ON ME, THIS WAS JUST FOR A CONSULTATION!!!!!).
YOU'RE f**kED IF YOU GO TO THIS PLACE. CALVERT IS ALSO WELL KNOWN FOR BEING SUED BY PATIENTS AS IS JACOBSON AND SCHENDEL. I KNOW OF A FEW CASES WHERE SCHENDEL AND JACOBSON GAVE PATIENTS SOME HUSH MONEY SO THEY WOULD NOT PROCEED WITH COURT CASES FOR DISFIGURING THEM. THEY'RE ALL ABOUT MARKETING AND SQUEEZING YOU FOR MONEY. I AM SO GLAD I NEVER WENT TO THESE CHARLATANS.
IF YOU WANT A GOOD, SOLID RESULT DOUGLAS SINN in TEXAS is WHO I ENDED UP GOING TO AND HE WAS SOLID. GUNSON/ARNETT ARE LIKE SAINTS COMPARED TO THESE f**kERS. d*mn, EVEN A COMPETENT JAW SURGEON IN YOUR AREA WILL BE MORE HONEST AND PROVIDE A BETTER RESULT THAN THESE MONEY-HUNGRY HACKS: DORFMAN, JACOBSON, SCHENDEL CALVERT. Oh my god and Jacobson is the evil shyster behind the whole operation. He doesn't know a thing about jaw surgery and sucks patients in with this nice-guy smarmy routine. That is all until you have a problem. Then he will ghost you like a satanic villain.
You think I'm going overboard here? No, you all know I'm one of the most experienced members on this board who has gone through surgery and come out the other side. ANd I can tell you ANYTHING TO DO WITH JACOBSON will lead to you suffering greatly. I could not overexaggerate.
Man, I don’t even know what to say except for, That Is Disturbing!
That’s awful you had to go through that, I feel for you.
So as far as choosing an Orthodontist, is it super important to find
just as good a one as your OMFS is? I was planning to just go with
whoever the OMFS that I’m seeing uses. But there is also two really
good one’s that Arnett & Gunson use. (Dr. Todd Walklow, and Dr.
Richard McLaughlin) but I doubt relle uses them since they’re not
even by him. What do you think?
I think I’m done being curious and will just stick with who I have been originally planning to see.
I definitely trust your experience, and really appreciate you sharing this. What a bunch of corrupt piece of sh*ts!
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If you choose an good OMFS, then it could be quite likely that the orthodontists the good OMFS works with are also good. You could always ask Relle if he would be willing to work with one of these 2 mentioned orthos as well.
Why not consult with the orthodontist Relle uses, if you dont like this ortho then consult with the two orthos A&G use?
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Does choosing an Orthodontist actually matter as much as picking out an OMFS?
The Orthodontist is just doing what the OMFS says, right?
Yeah you're right, and I'm sure if Relle has a certain Ortho he works with regularly, then it would probably be a better idea to go with them.
Since they probably have a relationship established together, and the Ortho already knows what Relle expects.
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Why don't you just check out the WALTER REED medical center which is for (US) military people. Some of those guys got to be good. I know a past head of it but who was in plastic surgery; Barry Martin--GREAT GUY. So Google him maybe (Barry Martin MD Walter Reed medical) and ask him who the good maxfax guys are there. He used to be HEAD of PS at WR. I had him when he was RESIDENT and I KNEW the guy was going to be GOOD. He's extremely ethical, affable and a (US) military guy. So, he should know of a good max fax guy at Walter Reed center.
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You know that's a great suggestion! I actually called them before to check my eligibility.
I thought being stationed on the west coast there was no way, but the lady I spoke to at the OMFS
Department even asked the Navy Cmdr. (Dr.) Chris Crecelius, who assured me I could.
I was just shocked over the distance, but that may be a good solution.
I googled berry martin and only found an office phone#, so should I try seeing if his staff would ask him.
Or surely they could give me his email?
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Ortho is important. I think A/G like Richard McLaughlin in San Diego. Maybe someone can confirm, but I think they let him write the ortho chapter for their textbook.
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Oh okay. And yeah, Arnett & Gunson's office were the ones who told me they use McLaughlin and Todd Walkow.
I wouldn't know about the textbook part though.
Also, McLaughlin is semi retired and has Paul Upatham taking over more now.
But his office said he could still see me though if I wanted, which was good.
I also called back Arnett & Gunson's office to see if I could get them to tell me if one was better out of the two.
The lady wouldn't really give me an answer, but sorta said Walkow was used a little more for cosmetic reasons.
Both seem really good though.
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Off-topic question, I need to come up with a good enough reason to convince a different military doc I'm seeing
why I should be referred to a local civilian doc (relle), and not the military facility full of residency doctors.
This is my last try. How could I put it to her for a undeniable reason why?
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Off-topic question, I need to come up with a good enough reason to convince a different military doc I'm seeing
why I should be referred to a local civilian doc (relle), and not the military facility full of residency doctors.
This is my last try. How could I put it to her for a undeniable reason why?
Just say that for your "sleep apnea" (just say you have a severe case) you need a strong CCW movement with grafting. And that the military docs are not specialized in doing large CCW movements. They most probably don't do CCW while Relle/Gunson et al. do so they would automatically disqualify themselves from doing your surgery and addressing your concerns.
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You know that's a great suggestion! I actually called them before to check my eligibility.
I thought being stationed on the west coast there was no way, but the lady I spoke to at the OMFS
Department even asked the Navy Cmdr. (Dr.) Chris Crecelius, who assured me I could.
I was just shocked over the distance, but that may be a good solution.
I googled berry martin and only found an office phone#, so should I try seeing if his staff would ask him.
Or surely they could give me his email?
Residency
2003 - Harvard Plastic Surgery Residency Program, Boston, MA, Plastic Surgery. He was resident of chief of PS at MGH.
IDK, tell whom ever answers the phone something like the mod of a jaw surgery board PREDICTED (15 years ago) he would be a great doctor and that came true and suggested that he would probably know of a good maxfax guy at Walter Reed.
If he doesn't have an e-mail call and ask the person who answers the phone to ask him and then call back a day or 2 later to see if he gives a suggestion.
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Just say that for your "sleep apnea" (just say you have a severe case) you need a strong CCW movement with grafting. And that the military docs are not specialized in doing large CCW movements. They most probably don't do CCW while Relle/Gunson et al. do so they would automatically disqualify themselves from doing your surgery and addressing your concerns.
Unless, he's had a sleep study that kicks up sleep apnea, he doesn't know if he has that and they're gonna know that he doesn't know if he has that. They're also going to know whether or not he 'knows' he needs CCW. Nor does he know for sure if they don't do CCW. The military docs aren't stupid. They will PEG him as someone wanting to self diagnose in order to have COSMETIC maxfax.
The more straight forward thing to say is something like: 'I would like to consult with a doctor of KNOWN capacity, known peer recognition for being very good at at maxillo-facial surgery and who also does MANY cases per year.'
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Residency
2003 - Harvard Plastic Surgery Residency Program, Boston, MA, Plastic Surgery. He was resident of chief of PS at MGH.
IDK, tell whom ever answers the phone something like the mod of a jaw surgery board PREDICTED (15 years ago) he would be a great doctor and that came true and suggested that he would probably know of a good maxfax guy at Walter Reed.
If he doesn't have an e-mail call and ask the person who answers the phone to ask him and then call back a day or 2 later to see if he gives a suggestion.
Okay will do. He seems very well educated, and I definitely trust your judgement.
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Lazlo means well but they can challenge you if you say you have sleep apnea or need CWW if you say such things via 'self assessment'. So you avoid SELF assessing and just assesses relative PEER group (max fax docs) assessements.
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Lazlo means well but they can challenge you if you say you have sleep apnea or need CWW if you say such things via 'self assessment'. So you avoid SELF assessing and just assesses relative PEER group (max fax docs) assessements.
Yeah and that would be great if I had that diagnosis to use. I know the MTF does CCW also, but if they're residents they can't be too experienced at it can they? Why take the risk.
The problem still comes down to my military primary doctor (who I have to see to be able to get any type of referral period). When I went back to her to ask for a referral to a civilian doctor, she told me "The Military Facility has the main experienced doctors watch over the residency doctors during the surgery". And she said "So there isn't anything to be worried about and you will just have to go there".
Is there anything else you could think of I could try and say to convince her? Gawd this is frustrating.
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Yeah and that would be great if I had that diagnosis to use. I know the MTF does CCW also, but if they're residents they can't be too experienced at it can they? Why take the risk.
The problem still comes down to my military primary doctor (who I have to see to be able to get any type of referral period). When I went back to her to ask for a referral to a civilian doctor, she told me "The Military Facility has the main experienced doctors watch over the residency doctors during the surgery". And she said "So there isn't anything to be worried about and you will just have to go there".
Is there anything else you could think of I could try and say to convince her? Gawd this is frustrating.
Just what I suggested already:
The more straight forward thing to say is something like: 'I would like to consult with a doctor of KNOWN capacity, known peer recognition for being very good at at maxillo-facial surgery and who also does MANY cases per year.'
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Well unfortunately I still wasn't able to change the mind of my Navy doctor or anyone else I tried speaking too. They still insist the military facility has full capability of doing the surgery, and they won't make any changes.
However, I got in contact with Barry Martin and he actually spoke to me directly. He told me to give him a week and he would find out from one of his friends at Walter Reed who's good. He said most of the guys he knew over there already retired.
I also asked him about the West Coast, since I'm stationed out here and if he knew of somebody good that would be great. What do you think? Stick it out for Relle in the mean time, while I wait to hear back from Barry Martin?
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Well unfortunately I still wasn't able to change the mind of my Navy doctor or anyone else I tried speaking too. They still insist the military facility has full capability of doing the surgery, and they won't make any changes.
However, I got in contact with Barry Martin and he actually spoke to me directly. He told me to give him a week and he would find out from one of his friends at Walter Reed who's good. He said most of the guys he knew over there already retired.
I also asked him about the West Coast, since I'm stationed out here and if he knew of somebody good that would be great. What do you think? Stick it out for Relle in the mean time, while I wait to hear back from Barry Martin?
Why are you stuck with the navy? Can't you just screw them and find your own doctor and have it done? Or is it a quest to have the navy to pay for a private surgeon? In that case I think it's hard. Medically they can probably resolve your issues, but maybe not in the aesthetic way you prefer, but that's not their priority when giving away a surgery for free.
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Well unfortunately I still wasn't able to change the mind of my Navy doctor or anyone else I tried speaking too. They still insist the military facility has full capability of doing the surgery, and they won't make any changes.
However, I got in contact with Barry Martin and he actually spoke to me directly. He told me to give him a week and he would find out from one of his friends at Walter Reed who's good. He said most of the guys he knew over there already retired.
I also asked him about the West Coast, since I'm stationed out here and if he knew of somebody good that would be great. What do you think? Stick it out for Relle in the mean time, while I wait to hear back from Barry Martin?
I would just wait to hear from Barry Martin because he's a military contact who might come up with a lead of who's good within what your military insurance will pay for.
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Why are you stuck with the navy? Can't you just screw them and find your own doctor and have it done? Or is it a quest to have the navy to pay for a private surgeon? In that case I think it's hard. Medically they can probably resolve your issues, but maybe not in the aesthetic way you prefer, but that's not their priority when giving away a surgery for free.
Reason I am stuck is because TRICARE Prime is mandatory for Active Duty Service Members.
TRICARE Prime is basically a military HMO, which means you can't just call a specialist and make an appointment, you need a referral from a primary care manager.
Which is literally impossible to get if there is a military facility out there in your state "that is capable of doing the treatment". The plan cannot be changed and you
cannot use any other health insurance, unless you're married, have a dependent, or live in the middle of nowhere far away off base.
I am starting to regret not getting this done before the military, although I probably wouldn't have gotten past MEPS if I had.
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I would just wait to hear from Barry Martin because he's a military contact who might come up with a lead of who's good within what your military insurance will pay for.
I actually was able to speak with Barry Martin over the phone directly.
He told me to give him a week, since all the guys he knew had retired.
He said he will ask one of his friends up at the Plastic Surgery Department at Reed to give him the skinny on who's good.
I also asked him if he knew anyone on the West-Coast, and he said he would try and find out for me. Hoping to hear back some good news!
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I actually was able to speak with Barry Martin over the phone directly.
He told me to give him a week, since all the guys he knew had retired.
He said he will ask one of his friends up at the Plastic Surgery Department at Reed to give him the skinny on who's good.
I also asked him if he knew anyone on the West-Coast, and he said he would try and find out for me. Hoping to hear back some good news!
Did you mention that a patient who had him MANY years ago when he was a RESIDENT predicted he would be a good PS.
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Also, I called McLaughlins office (the orthodontist arnett & gunson use) and asked if they knew of any good military OMFS's. The lady said
they have never had a patient that was getting surgery from a military OMFS. So I asked if her if she knew any OMFS's that might possibly have
some type of in-house payment plan available (which I highly doubted but figured what the hell).
She told me that I should call the insurance coordinator over at Grant McGann’s office, because she might be able to help me with something.
So I did, and of course there wasn't anything she could really do for me. Then she told me she had forgotten, but she remembered that the supplier they
use for there metal platings in surgery, also supplies a lot of the military facilities as well. She said he's a really good friend of hers, and is in the
operating room a lot, getting to see most of the surgeons he supplies, work first hand. So she asked him for me, and he gave her a name.
His name is Drew Havard: https://imgur.com/a/P8FNAlz
https://www.joms.org/article/S0278-2391(16)00109-9/pdf
https://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmcsd/DocsGME/Dental/NMCSD-Dental-CE_CourseBrochure_FY2018.pdf
So I called and asked for my appointment to be with him.
He is one of the main surgeons at the military facility, and not a resident.
I also called Larry Wolfords office, since he worked on a piece of publishing with him (link above), and the lady at Wolfords office said she remembered him.
She didn't know much about him, besides that he trained under wolford for a month, and had a practice nearby them. He apparently travels
from TX to San Diego to do surgerys.
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Did you mention that a patient who had him MANY years ago when he was a RESIDENT predicted he would be a good PS.
Yup, sure did.
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Also, I had an idea about something as well. The OMFS Department at the Military Facility wants you to bring in the paperwork from the consult with
the Orthodontist, so they can see what they're thinking. I already have a consult next week with both of the Orthodontist Arnett & Gunson use, and was
going to bring in the paperwork I get from both Ortho's.
So I was thinking, why not also get paperwork to bring in from consults with 2 or 3 of the best of the best OMFS's? Or at least from
Arnett & Gunson and Larry Wolford, who is the OMFS Drew havard did some residency under. Not sure if this is a good or bad
idea, but I thought it might increase my treatment outcome beneficially.
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Well there has to be some good maxfax guys in the military. Maybe that guy is good. A lot of the field of maxfax and plastic surgery had it's boom (no pun intended) during the WORLD WARS with the military doctors.
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Well there has to be some good maxfax guys in the military. Maybe that guy is good. A lot of the field of maxfax and plastic surgery had it's boom (no pun intended) during the WORLD WARS with the military doctors.
Yeah, at least the main surgeons you would expect. I'm so concerned about asthetics. How could I express that to the doc without giving it away that that's the only reason I'm interested in the treatment.
Also, what do you think of my idea? Would it be insulting to do.
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not insulting.
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Reason I am stuck is because TRICARE Prime is mandatory for Active Duty Service Members.
TRICARE Prime is basically a military HMO, which means you can't just call a specialist and make an appointment, you need a referral from a primary care manager.
Which is literally impossible to get if there is a military facility out there in your state "that is capable of doing the treatment". The plan cannot be changed and you
cannot use any other health insurance, unless you're married, have a dependent, or live in the middle of nowhere far away off base.
I am starting to regret not getting this done before the military, although I probably wouldn't have gotten past MEPS if I had.
It sounds really strange. Will they tie you down and perform the surgery, as it's mandatory? Will they put you in jail if you book an appointment with a private surgeon when you're off duty and have it done financed on your own without their knowledge? I understand that they can set the rules if they're gonna pay for it. But it sounds strange that they can stop you from just going off on your own.
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No its not like that lol. They aren't forcing me to do anything. The surgery itself is considered elective by the military.
If you want it done though, there are only 2 ways the military will allow. Either have it done at the Military Facility
or have it done outside in the Civilian Sector and pay 100% out of pocket.
Unless by some miracle of God you can get a referral to In-Network
(which seems impossible, since I have spoken with every resource available and have gotten nowhere)
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No its not like that lol. They aren't forcing me to do anything. The surgery itself is considered elective by the military.
If you want it done though, there are only 2 ways the military will allow. Either have it done at the Military Facility or have it done outside in the Civilian Sector and pay 100% out of pocket.
Unless by some miracle of God you can get a referral to In-Network (which I have literally talked to every resource you can talk to on that type of thing and have gotten nowhere).
Ok, so you're not stuck with the military. I'm kind of in the same situation, and after a year or so I decided it was enough with the bulls**t and decided to start consulting privately instead. For me I wish I would've done that earlier instead of wasting my time trying to beat the system and if I would advice anyone, it would be to not waste time in losing battles and take control of the situation instead. Yes, it's expensive, but it also puts it in perspective if you only want it if someone else will pay for it.
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Ok, so you're not stuck with the military. I'm kind of in the same situation, and after a year or so I decided it was enough with the bulls**t and decided to start consulting privately instead. For me I wish I would've done that earlier instead of wasting my time trying to beat the system and if I would advice anyone, it would be to not waste time in losing battles and take control of the situation instead. Yes, it's expensive, but it also puts it in perspective if you only want it if someone else will pay for it.
Well if you don't take money into account, then no.
Was your situation active duty, or just some strict civilian HMO insurance plan?
Sorry, I'm kind of confused. Are you suggesting paying out of pocket or something else?
If so, I'd be happy to hear where I could find a 40K loan. Because I haven't ever heard
of a financing for this type of expense, that's even mildly obtainable.
I was given a good name of a surgeon from a reputable source, so I'll be going to consult with this Military
OMFS to check and see. I'm also waiting to hear back from Berry Martin, which hopefully I'll get a name.
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Sorry, I'm kind of confused. Are you suggesting paying out of pocket or something else?
If so, I'd be happy to hear where I could find a 40K loan. Because I haven't ever heard
of a financing for this type of expense, that's even mildly obtainable.
Yes, that was what I was suggesting. I can of course not give financial advices on how to save for it or where to lend money. But just saying the obvious, the health care systems, or in your case the military is not doing this to offer you plastic surgery. If they offer you a surgery it's because they see a medical problem, which I'm sure they'll be able to fix. What you seem to be looking for is to maximize the aesthetic result. This is why you're having a conflict with your doctors. They are surely able to handle the medical aspects, but you want someone like Gunson to perform it, which is not gonna happen. Am I right that you're mainly doing this for aesthetic reasons, or what medical concerns do you have that you don't think they'll be able to handle for you?
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There is something called 'CARE CREDIT' for cosmetic surgery loans.
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Yeah, at least the main surgeons you would expect. I'm so concerned about asthetics. How could I express that to the doc without giving it away that that's the only reason I'm interested in the treatment.
Also, what do you think of my idea? Would it be insulting to do.
Just tell him/her you ALSO want to maximize aesthetics.
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Just tell him/her you ALSO want to maximize aesthetics.
Agree. I mean the aesthetic aspect would probably be the only reason they would consider something else, because everything else is covered in what they can do. If that conversation leads up to that they won't send you to another surgeon, then you have it all on the table. Trying to trick the surgeon that he can't fix your bite when he probably can is not a constructive conversation, you need to be to honest to get somewhere. And it's also good to know exactly why you don't think they'll be able to handle it as you like. If it's posterior down grafting or what ever.
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Yes, that was what I was suggesting. I can of course not give financial advices on how to save for it or where to lend money. But just saying the obvious, the health care systems, or in your case the military is not doing this to offer you plastic surgery. If they offer you a surgery it's because they see a medical problem, which I'm sure they'll be able to fix.
What you seem to be looking for is to maximize the aesthetic result. This is why you're having a conflict with your doctors. They are surely able to handle the medical aspects, but you want someone like Gunson to perform it, which is not gonna happen. Am I right that you're mainly doing this for aesthetic reasons, or what medical concerns do you have that you don't think they'll be able to handle for you?
Hey I apologize, I wasn't trying to sound rude with the way I wrote that. Yeah you're right, it's definitely not for plastic
surgery. However, they told me that it's considered elective, since they don't classify it as being medically necessary.
If that makes a difference in the way they decide on which surgical methods & procedures to use, I don't know. That's what
I'm trying to find out. (but I'm pretty sure though, they look at it from a functional aspect)
Yeah that's what I am concerned with primarily, aesthetics. And just like you said, they can surely handle the medical aspect. But as
soon as I found out it was a residency facility, that's when I started having all these conflicting concerns about them addressing the
main thing I wanted to be focused on.
I've been trying to get a referral from my Primary Care Manager to go in-network and see Relle. But it
seems like I'm going to end up having to be treated at a military facility. So I'm trying to think of
ways to have the best odds possible.
I was going to get multiple consults from top OMFS's, then bring them in with me to my consult with the military
OMFS. I'm also trying to figure out how I should go about bringing up my main concern of aesthetics to them. I don't think they
would disqualify me from treatment over it, but I want to try and let them know that it's a very important factor for me in
doing this. What would you say.
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Just tell him/her you ALSO want to maximize aesthetics.
Yeah I didn't think Care Credit would loan somebody more than like 10K though. I'd be willing to work
out a payment plan with the hospital the surgery takes place at if it was possible. Then take out the money from
Care Credit (if I get accepted) to cover the Surgeons Fee (and probably the Anesthesiologists fee)
I heard the total bill (including hospital charges) end up being close to 100K or more, with
30-50% of that being the surgeons fee. A loan for the surgeons fee from Care Credit, and a payment
plan with the hospital for the rest. Probably wouldn't happen right?
Anyway, So just keep it at that? Is there anything you would suggest to imply heavily on.
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Also Kavan, do you know if Sinn or Wolford do digital consults?
Was looking to definitely get a consult from Wolford since I'm seeing Havard.
I don't think Gunson will do my digital consult in time for me to have to give
to Havard though. Anyone you might be able to whisper to me lol.
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Also Kavan, do you know if Sinn or Wolford do digital consults?
Was looking to definitely get a consult from Wolford since I'm seeing Havard.
I don't think Gunson will do my digital consult in time for me to have to give
to Havard though. Anyone you might be able to whisper to me lol.
No idea.
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Yeah I didn't think Care Credit would loan somebody more than like 10K though. I'd be willing to work
out a payment plan with the hospital the surgery takes place at if it was possible. Then take out the money from
Care Credit (if I get accepted) to cover the Surgeons Fee (and probably the Anesthesiologists fee)
I heard the total bill (including hospital charges) end up being close to 100K or more, with
30-50% of that being the surgeons fee. A loan for the surgeons fee from Care Credit, and a payment
plan with the hospital for the rest. Probably wouldn't happen right?
Anyway, So just keep it at that? Is there anything you would suggest to imply heavily on.
All I know is that Care Credit gives loans. No idea how much or what the payments are.
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All I know is that Care Credit gives loans. No idea how much or what the payments are.
You ever heard of someone doing this to get there surgery
all covered out of pocket?
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You ever heard of someone doing this to get there surgery
all covered out of pocket?
IDK. Just wanted to tell you loans are there for cosmetic surgery.
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IDK. Just wanted to tell you loans are there for cosmetic surgery.
Yeah, that's right. Man, I really appreciate all the time you've taken to help me out.
Can I donate to the forums, or do you have a favorite charity or gofundme or something.
Already given you and everyone else on this post lots of applauds lol.
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Yeah, that's right. Man, I really appreciate all the time you've taken to help me out.
Can I donate to the forums, or do you have a favorite charity or gofundme or something.
Already given you and everyone else on this post lots of applauds lol.
Thanx. Sure, you can donate to the forums. He goes by bitcoin. His bitcoin is
1AwY5KSLRLsHUYHe34a4wj12iWUYDogbWS
Just tell GJ, board owner, which part is for me.
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Thanx. Sure, you can donate to the forums. He goes by bitcoin. His bitcoin is
1AwY5KSLRLsHUYHe34a4wj12iWUYDogbWS
Just tell GJ, board owner, which part is for me.
Alright cool man.
I'm not setup with all that yet. Is that the only way?
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Alright cool man.
I'm not setup with all that yet. Is that the only way?
Only way.
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Alright, I'll figure it out here soon.
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Hey I apologize, I wasn't trying to sound rude with the way I wrote that. Yeah you're right, it's definitely not for plastic
surgery. However, they told me that it's considered elective, since they don't classify it as being medically necessary.
If that makes a difference in the way they decide on which surgical methods & procedures to use, I don't know. That's what
I'm trying to find out. (but I'm pretty sure though, they look at it from a functional aspect)
Yeah that's what I am concerned with primarily, aesthetics. And just like you said, they can surely handle the medical aspect. But as
soon as I found out it was a residency facility, that's when I started having all these conflicting concerns about them addressing the
main thing I wanted to be focused on.
I've been trying to get a referral from my Primary Care Manager to go in-network and see Relle. But it
seems like I'm going to end up having to be treated at a military facility. So I'm trying to think of
ways to have the best odds possible.
I was going to get multiple consults from top OMFS's, then bring them in with me to my consult with the military
OMFS. I'm also trying to figure out how I should go about bringing up my main concern of aesthetics to them. I don't think they
would disqualify me from treatment over it, but I want to try and let them know that it's a very important factor for me in
doing this. What would you say.
No problem, I'm just telling you the truth, even if it may be inconvenient for you. The military have same problem as you, a limited amount of money and can't send everyone to private surgeons if there's no reason for it. Given this, you have to give them a reason why they should refer you.
You say that it's not plastic surgery, but it does come off as aesthetic is your main reason for the surgery, and you even wrote so previously in this thread. It's nothing wrong with that, but you need to be clear about why you're performing this surgery to get the result you want. You also need to be clear about why you don't think the offered surgery will be able to resolve your issues.
What are the actual issues you're having and want to correct? You've seen your surgeon, and they've told you it's not medically necessary, but they'll do it anyway. What does this mean, and what is the plan the surgeon have for you? Do you have a bite deficiency that is not big enough, but can be corrected, or do they offer this to you only because if your aesthetic concerns? If so, it sounds like a very generous offer. When you've met the surgeon, they must have also told you what they can correct for you, and how? In what way does the plan they offer you doesn't seem sufficient?
I can understand your surgeons frustration, because it seems like you're disqualifying them, without knowing why and what you want instead. You just want someone else.
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I don't even think there could be a reason that could get them to send me to a private surgeon. Because all the surgeons there do jaw surgery, even if they aren't Arnett & Gunson level. All the military looks at is the capability.
I haven't met the Military OMFS yet, so I don't know what type of surgery he will recommend. Apparently the doctor I'm seeing is really good, that's what a few people that I spoke to today at different facilities even said. But still, I want to try and increase a good aesthetic outcome as much as possible, since I'll probably definitely have to go to the military OMFS for surgery.
I'm not sure what exactly and specifically I'd like to have corrected. Whatever change will make the biggest difference aesthetically I suppose. So my plan is to get a consult from Gunson, Wolford, and Sinn. Then bring those consults into my first appointment with the military OMFS to increase my odds.
I don't have a bite deficiency since I had past braces with 2 upper-teeth extractions.I mean does it require a plastic surgery degrees or something to produce a good cosmetic result? Or as long as the OMFS is experienced and has done a lot of jaw surgeries then he should know better? I figured that if I get a few consults from the best of the best OMFS, bring those in to my military OMFS, then that it should all hopefully go good. Or they will at least look at it, and possibly mirror what they recommend. What do you think?
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Only way.
Hey Kavan sent you a PM.
And I accidentally sent it before I finished it too.
Also would you think it's worth getting a consult from 3 different Orthodontists? (Already getting 3 diffetrent OMFS Consults) These are who I was going to consult with.
1- https://walkowortho.com/doctors/
2- http://www.libertystationortho.com/meet-the-doctors
3- https://eliteorthodonticsgroup.com/meet-dr-ehsani/
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I have an complex case and I want to consult 5 different orthos lol, even though your case seems simple relatively nothing wrong spending a few extra bucks consulting more than 1 ortho
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I have an complex case and I want to consult 5 different orthos lol, even though your case seems simple relatively nothing wrong spending a few extra bucks consulting more than 1 ortho
What is complex about your case?
And I think all the consults are free.
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Hey Kavan sent you a PM.
And I accidentally sent it before I finished it too.
Also would you think it's worth getting a consult from 3 different Orthodontists? (Already getting 3 diffetrent OMFS Consults) These are who I was going to consult with.
1- https://walkowortho.com/doctors/
2- http://www.libertystationortho.com/meet-the-doctors
3- https://eliteorthodonticsgroup.com/meet-dr-ehsani/
I don't think you have to worry about the military doctors. It's not as if they are going to make you look worse or push your face backwards or anything like that. They will be wanting to move your face forward, especially the lower jaw. In maxfax surgery, the ortho needs to work WITH the maxfax. So, they might want you to use one of the military orthos too.
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I don't think you have to worry about the military doctors. It's not as if they are going to make you look worse or push your face backwards or anything like that. They will be wanting to move your face forward, especially the lower jaw. In maxfax surgery, the ortho needs to work WITH the maxfax. So, they might want you to use one of the military orthos too.
Yeah I don't really have much concern with them making things look worse. It was about, as you said, Maximizing Asthetics.
Apparently there's only 2 military Orthodontist on the whole west coast, and they are crazy busy. I suppose my concern was that they wouldn't be as thorough in there treatment as a highly qualified civilian orthodontist.
(especially as the top one Arnett & Gunson use)
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Yeah I don't really have much concern with them making things look worse. It was about, as you said, Maximizing Asthetics.
Apparently there's only 2 military Orthodontist on the whole west coast, and they are crazy busy. I suppose my concern was that they wouldn't be as thorough in there treatment as a highly qualified civilian orthodontist.
(especially as the top one Arnett & Gunson use)
The military docs are in the capacity to improve your appearance. Just consult with Gunson for a basic plan. You don't need to consult with a bunch of other maxfax guys. Take Gunson's plan to the military doctor. But not a bunch of multiple plans from many others. You can also consult with an ortho that Gunson uses. One consult with A known expert (and who ever ortho he uses) and MULTI consults with the military maxfax guys to find one that's the closest to the Gunson plan.
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I'm not sure what exactly and specifically I'd like to have corrected.
I'm not sure I follow here. Why are you having jaw surgery? What result would make you satisfied? Most people don't do jaw surgery just because they can, they're hoping for some kind of improvement, either aesthetic or functional correction. What is the aesthetic issue you're having?
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I'm not sure I follow here. Why are you having jaw surgery? What result would make you satisfied? Most people don't do jaw surgery just because they can, they're hoping for some kind of improvement, either aesthetic or functional correction. What is the aesthetic issue you're having?
His jaws are pushed backwards and he has some sleep apnea. He has a professional profile photo on one of the first few posts he made on JSF.
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As to 'Civilian' doctors, instead of automatically associating the word; 'Civilian' with 'better' (than military doctors)--you ARE making that automatic association-- try THIS association INSTEAD:
Civilian doctors = FOR PROFIT doctors who are not serving the country and who are going to CHARGE someone who IS the SAME $$$$$ they would charge a civilian with a lot of $$$$.
Military doctors= Concern about your well being and health (because they have incentive to keep you in service for as long as possible) AND they are concerned enough that they are going to give you a FREE surgery.
So, PRACTICE making THOSE associations in YOUR HEAD as to SHIFT some negative associations onto the civilian doctors and some positive ones to the military doctors. When you THINK ABOUT it THAT WAY, what I said is TRUE.
Let me put it this way; Just look at the civilian doctors you were initially IMPRESSED with, the Jaw Surgery Center you linked to in your first post where it turned out they weren't so 'impressive' after all when we looked under the covers. So, practice those associations and I'll do a morph for you which you can bring to your consults.
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The military docs are in the capacity to improve your appearance. Just consult with Gunson for a basic plan. You don't need to consult with a bunch of other maxfax guys. Take Gunson's plan to the military doctor. But not a bunch of multiple plans from many others. You can also consult with an ortho that Gunson uses. One consult with A known expert (and who ever ortho he uses) and MULTI consults with the military maxfax guys to find one that's the closest to the Gunson plan.
Get a plan from Gunson and ask the military surgeon to perform it. People have done it before with good results.
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Get a plan from Gunson and ask the military surgeon to perform it. People have done it before with good results.
yeah this is a good idea.
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The military docs are in the capacity to improve your appearance. Just consult with Gunson for a basic plan. You don't need to consult with a bunch of other maxfax guys. Take Gunson's plan to the military doctor. But not a bunch of multiple plans from many others. You can also consult with an ortho that Gunson uses. One consult with A known expert (and who ever ortho he uses) and MULTI consults with the military maxfax guys to find one that's the closest to the Gunson plan.
Hey Kavan, sorry for the late reply. Sounds like a good idea, I'll just cut it down to gunson and his ortho, walklow.
Also, Dr. Barry Martin got back with me on a name of a maxfac at Walter Reed. But I think before I make a trip to the other
side of the country to see him, I'll go with your suggestion and consult with military maxfacs here.
On my consult with Gunson, if my goal is for aesthetics only, should I make that
clear? Or should I just let him do his thing.
Would you suggest at my consult with the military maxfac, asking them directly if they will perform gunsons surgery plans?
Or should I just keep quiet, see what they recommend, compare their plan to gunsons, then deciding from there?
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Get a plan from Gunson and ask the military surgeon to perform it. People have done it before with good results.
That's a good idea, and sounds really simple.
It seems though it would be really important on the way you ask this though.
How would you go about doing this.
Just simply, handing him gunsons surgery plans and asking if he would be willing to consider doing this?
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Let Gunson do his thing. His goal includes good aesthetics.
Yes, you can ask the other doc if they can do G's plans. After all, that's the reason for getting one from G.
Hey Kavan, sorry for the late reply. Sounds like a good idea, I'll just cut it down to gunson and his ortho, walklow.
Also, Dr. Barry Martin got back with me on a name of a maxfac at Walter Reed. But I think before I make a trip to the other
side of the country to see him, I'll go with your suggestion and consult with military maxfacs here.
On my consult with Gunson, if my goal is for aesthetics only, should I make that
clear? Or should I just let him do his thing.
Would you suggest at my consult with the military maxfac, asking them directly if they will perform gunsons surgery plans?
Or should I just keep quiet, see what they recommend, compare their plan to gunsons, then deciding from there?
-
As to 'Civilian' doctors, instead of automatically associating the word; 'Civilian' with 'better' (than military doctors)--you ARE making that automatic association-- try THIS association INSTEAD:
Civilian doctors = FOR PROFIT doctors who are not serving the country and who are going to CHARGE someone who IS the SAME $$$$$ they would charge a civilian with a lot of $$$$.
Military doctors= Concern about your well being and health (because they have incentive to keep you in service for as long as possible) AND they are concerned enough that they are going to give you a FREE surgery.
So, PRACTICE making THOSE associations in YOUR HEAD as to SHIFT some negative associations onto the civilian doctors and some positive ones to the military doctors. When you THINK ABOUT it THAT WAY, what I said is TRUE.
Let me put it this way; Just look at the civilian doctors you were initially IMPRESSED with, the Jaw Surgery Center you linked to in your first post where it turned out they weren't so 'impressive' after all when we looked under the covers. So, practice those associations and I'll do a morph for you which you can bring to your consults.
You know you're right, and I don't disagree. That really makes a lot of sense to me now, and I think I can
change my view on that, Thank you for your offer on the morph, I would really appreciate that!
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Let Gunson do his thing. His goal includes good aesthetics.
Yes, you can ask the other doc if they can do G's plans. After all, that's the reason for getting one from G.
How would you suggest my approach on asking the military maxfac?
They already require me to bring in the notes on the ortho's opinion.
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How would you suggest my approach on asking the military maxfac?
They already require me to bring in the notes on the ortho's opinion.
just hand over the plans and request they do them.
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just hand over the plans and request they do them.
Alrighty, simple enough.
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Just in. Jay Calvert, a doctor on the Jaw Center LA surgery team, where Schendel and Jacobson also practice, is in the media again for the same thing he was in the media years back; accusations of unnecessary procedures and insurance fraud.
http://www.foxla.com/features/beverly-hills-plastic-surgeon-accused-of-unnecessary-surgeries-as-part-of-insurance-fraud-scheme
According to the Jaw Center LA surgery website; Calvert ".. was recruited by Dr. Steven Schendel (Professor Emeritus, Stanford University, department of Plastic Surgery) when he served as Chief of Surgery at FCLA....."
https://www.jawcenter.la/team/
Some team they have there.
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amazing, I'd discredit any doctor that thinks it's good judgement to partner with the guy, how do insurance companies let him get away with this runaway billing
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amazing, I'd discredit any doctor that thinks it's good judgement to partner with the guy, how do insurance companies let him get away with this runaway billing
The news link (I gave) showed that he had 3 different biz names used for medical billing. But the weird thing is that the insurance company is not the one lodging the complaint.
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Just in. Jay Calvert, a doctor on the Jaw Center LA surgery team, where Schendel and Jacobson also practice, is in the media again for the same thing he was in the media years back; accusations of unnecessary procedures and insurance fraud.
http://www.foxla.com/features/beverly-hills-plastic-surgeon-accused-of-unnecessary-surgeries-as-part-of-insurance-fraud-scheme
According to the Jaw Center LA surgery website; Calvert ".. was recruited by Dr. Steven Schendel (Professor Emeritus, Stanford University, department of Plastic Surgery) when he served as Chief of Surgery at FCLA....."
https://www.jawcenter.la/team/
Some team they have there.
Wow...what a sick and Evil POS.
They need to start cracking down harder on these doctors, no more chances.
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The news link (I gave) showed that he had 3 different biz names used for medical billing. But the weird thing is that the insurance company is not the one lodging the complaint.
Also I finished up my consult with Gunson. Here's what he recommended if you have a chance to look - https://imgur.com/a/vFqfBG8
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Also I finished up my consult with Gunson. Here's what he recommended if you have a chance to look - https://imgur.com/a/vFqfBG8
The contour proposed change for the profile looks great. You might want to start another thread separately about your consult and documents.
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Heck yeah! You know now that I think about it in context, I was never really concerned over my profile. It's always been my frontal I hate.
My chin, upper jaw, lower jaw, and midface are recessed. I wonder if I will be one of those candidates who will be able to benefit from it a lot? I know soft tissue changes are unpredictable though. Gunson said I'm there favorite kind of candidate, since I'd be getting the Sleep Apnea cured, which alone will address asthetics.
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Heck yeah! You know now that I think about it in context, I was never really concerned over my profile. It's always been my frontal I hate.
My chin, upper jaw, lower jaw, and midface are recessed. I wonder if I will be one of those candidates who will be able to benefit from it a lot? I know soft tissue changes are unpredictable though. Gunson said I'm there favorite kind of candidate, since I'd be getting the Sleep Apnea cured, which alone will address asthetics.
That's what is being corrected in the profile which will also make the front look better.
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Yeah, I guess the changes are always more subtle in the front compared to the profile?
Also, I saw the Military MaxFac. I was a little upset, since I was met by a Resident. I realize I'm nobody special, but I was told I'd be meeting with the doctor, I had specifically chosen, directly. Instead it was a resident who works directly under that doctor.
I handed them over everything from Guson, Walkow, and McLaughlins office. The Resident asked me who the surgery plan was from, and didn't say too much, but took it when I told him. He said I was definitely a double jaw surgery case.
So I think I'm going to keep moving forward with the Military MaxFac for now, until I see what they come up with. I'll put up another thread as you mentioned. Should I put it up under "Aesthetics"?
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Yeah, I guess the changes are always more subtle in the front compared to the profile?
Also, I saw the Military MaxFac. I was a little upset, since I was met by a Resident. I realize I'm nobody special, but I was told I'd be meeting with the doctor, I had specifically chosen, directly. Instead it was a resident who works directly under that doctor.
I handed them over everything from Guson, Walkow, and McLaughlins office. The Resident asked me who the surgery plan was from, and didn't say too much, but took it when I told him. He said I was definitely a double jaw surgery case.
So I think I'm going to keep moving forward with the Military MaxFac for now, until I see what they come up with. I'll put up another thread as you mentioned. Should I put it up under "Aesthetics"?
Changes are improved in the front too. Just make sure the military maxfax follows the plan. Yes, you can put the new thread under aesthetics.
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Changes are improved in the front too. Just make sure the military maxfax follows the plan. Yes, you can put the new thread under aesthetics.
Yeah, definitely am hoping for some better balance. This is basically what I had told him:
"I had braces when I was about 15 years old. I had two upper premolars extracted to correct my bite. Later, I
developed mild sleep apnea and had UPPP Surgery to try to address this.
I've also been concerned with my appearance/facial balance and had rhinoplasty. I'm here today
because I want to improve my breathing and better address my facial balance.
I'm really focused on aesthetics, so I really want to make sure the plan is as good as possible. I saw a surgeon
in Santa Barbara who came up with this plan (showed plan). Double jaw surgery with segmentation of
the upper in order to widen."
He took the plan, but I have no idea whether he will follow it. I guess I'll update once I find out what they want to do?
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Yeah, definitely am hoping for some better balance. This is basically what I had told him:
"I had braces when I was about 15 years old. I had two upper premolars extracted to correct my bite. Later, I
developed mild sleep apnea and had UPPP Surgery to try to address this.
I've also been concerned with my appearance/facial balance and had rhinoplasty. I'm here today
because I want to improve my breathing and better address my facial balance.
I'm really focused on aesthetics, so I really want to make sure the plan is as good as possible. I saw a surgeon
in Santa Barbara who came up with this plan (showed plan). Double jaw surgery with segmentation of
the upper in order to widen."
He took the plan, but I have no idea whether he will follow it. I guess I'll update once I find out what they want to do?
Have him follow it.