Jaw Center in Los Angeles

[Austinou88]

Does choosing an Orthodontist actually matter as much as picking out an OMFS?
The Orthodontist is just doing what the OMFS says, right?

Yeah you're right, and I'm sure if Relle has a certain Ortho he works with regularly, then it would probably be a better idea to go with them.
Since they probably have a relationship established together, and the Ortho already knows what Relle expects.

[kavan]

Why don't you just check out the WALTER REED medical center which is for (US) military people.  Some of those guys got to be good. I know a past head of it but who was in plastic surgery; Barry Martin--GREAT GUY.  So Google him maybe (Barry Martin MD Walter Reed medical) and ask him who the good maxfax guys are there. He used to be HEAD of PS  at WR.  I had him when he was RESIDENT and I KNEW the guy was going to be GOOD. He's extremely ethical, affable  and a (US) military guy. So, he should know of a good max fax guy at Walter Reed center.

[Austinou88]

You know that's a great suggestion! I actually called them before to check my eligibility.
I thought being stationed on the west coast there was no way, but the lady I spoke to at the OMFS
Department even asked the Navy Cmdr. (Dr.) Chris Crecelius, who assured me I could.

I was just shocked over the distance, but that may be a good solution.
I googled berry martin and only found an office phone#, so should I try seeing if his staff would ask him.
Or surely they could give me his email?

[GJ]

Ortho is important. I think A/G like Richard McLaughlin in San Diego. Maybe someone can confirm, but I think they let him write the ortho chapter for their textbook.

[Austinou88]

Oh okay. And yeah, Arnett & Gunson's office were the ones who told me they use McLaughlin and Todd Walkow.
I wouldn't know about the textbook part though.

Also, McLaughlin is semi retired and has Paul Upatham taking over more now.
But his office said he could still see me though if I wanted, which was good.

I also called back Arnett & Gunson's office to see if I could get them to tell me if one was better out of the two.
The lady wouldn't really give me an answer, but sorta said Walkow was used a little more for cosmetic reasons.

Both seem really good though.

[Austinou88]

Off-topic question, I need to come up with a good enough reason to convince a different military doc I'm seeing
why I should be referred to a local civilian doc (relle), and not the military facility full of residency doctors.

This is my last try. How could I put it to her for a undeniable reason why?

[Lazlo]

Off-topic question, I need to come up with a good enough reason to convince a different military doc I'm seeing
why I should be referred to a local civilian doc (relle), and not the military facility full of residency doctors.

This is my last try. How could I put it to her for a undeniable reason why?

Just say that for your "sleep apnea" (just say you have  a severe case) you need a strong CCW movement with grafting. And that the military docs are not specialized in doing large CCW movements. They most probably don't do CCW while Relle/Gunson et al. do so they would automatically disqualify themselves from doing your surgery and addressing your concerns.

[kavan]

You know that's a great suggestion! I actually called them before to check my eligibility.
I thought being stationed on the west coast there was no way, but the lady I spoke to at the OMFS
Department even asked the Navy Cmdr. (Dr.) Chris Crecelius, who assured me I could.

I was just shocked over the distance, but that may be a good solution.
I googled berry martin and only found an office phone#, so should I try seeing if his staff would ask him.
Or surely they could give me his email?

Residency

2003 - Harvard Plastic Surgery Residency Program, Boston, MA, Plastic Surgery. He was resident of chief of PS at MGH.

IDK, tell whom ever answers the phone something like the mod of a jaw surgery board PREDICTED (15 years ago) he would be a great doctor and that came true and suggested that he would probably know of a good maxfax guy at Walter Reed.

If he doesn't have an e-mail call and ask the person who answers the phone to ask him and then call back a day or 2 later to see if he gives a suggestion.

[kavan]

Just say that for your "sleep apnea" (just say you have  a severe case) you need a strong CCW movement with grafting. And that the military docs are not specialized in doing large CCW movements. They most probably don't do CCW while Relle/Gunson et al. do so they would automatically disqualify themselves from doing your surgery and addressing your concerns.

Unless, he's had a sleep study that kicks up sleep apnea, he doesn't know if he has that and they're gonna know that he doesn't know if he has that. They're also going to know whether or not he 'knows' he needs CCW.  Nor does he know for sure if they don't do CCW. The military docs aren't stupid. They will PEG him as someone wanting to self diagnose in order to have COSMETIC maxfax.

The more straight forward thing to say is something like: 'I would like to consult with a doctor of KNOWN capacity, known peer recognition for being very good at at maxillo-facial surgery and who also does MANY cases per year.'

[Austinou88]

Residency

2003 - Harvard Plastic Surgery Residency Program, Boston, MA, Plastic Surgery. He was resident of chief of PS at MGH.

IDK, tell whom ever answers the phone something like the mod of a jaw surgery board PREDICTED (15 years ago) he would be a great doctor and that came true and suggested that he would probably know of a good maxfax guy at Walter Reed.

If he doesn't have an e-mail call and ask the person who answers the phone to ask him and then call back a day or 2 later to see if he gives a suggestion.

Okay will do. He seems very well educated, and I definitely trust your judgement.

[kavan]

Lazlo means well but they can challenge you if you say you have sleep apnea or need CWW if you say such things via 'self assessment'.  So you avoid SELF assessing and just assesses relative PEER group (max fax docs) assessements.

[Austinou88]

Lazlo means well but they can challenge you if you say you have sleep apnea or need CWW if you say such things via 'self assessment'.  So you avoid SELF assessing and just assesses relative PEER group (max fax docs) assessements.

Yeah and that would be great if I had that diagnosis to use. I know the MTF does CCW also, but if they're residents they can't be too experienced at it can they? Why take the risk.

The problem still comes down to my military primary doctor (who I have to see to be able to get any type of referral period). When I went back to her to ask for a referral to a civilian doctor, she told me "The Military Facility has the main experienced doctors watch over the residency doctors during the surgery". And she said "So there isn't anything to be worried about and you will just have to go there".

Is there anything else you could think of I could try and say to convince her? Gawd this is frustrating.

[kavan]

Yeah and that would be great if I had that diagnosis to use. I know the MTF does CCW also, but if they're residents they can't be too experienced at it can they? Why take the risk.

The problem still comes down to my military primary doctor (who I have to see to be able to get any type of referral period). When I went back to her to ask for a referral to a civilian doctor, she told me "The Military Facility has the main experienced doctors watch over the residency doctors during the surgery". And she said "So there isn't anything to be worried about and you will just have to go there".

Is there anything else you could think of I could try and say to convince her? Gawd this is frustrating.

Just what I suggested already:

The more straight forward thing to say is something like: 'I would like to consult with a doctor of KNOWN capacity, known peer recognition for being very good at at maxillo-facial surgery and who also does MANY cases per year.'

[Austinou88]

Well unfortunately I still wasn't able to change the mind of my Navy doctor or anyone else I tried speaking too. They still insist the military facility has full capability of doing the surgery, and they won't make any changes.

However, I got in contact with Barry Martin and he actually spoke to me directly. He told me to give him a week and he would find out from one of his friends at Walter Reed who's good. He said most of the guys he knew over there already retired.


I also asked him about the West Coast, since I'm stationed out here and if he knew of somebody good that would be great. What do you think? Stick it out for Relle in the mean time, while I wait to hear back from Barry Martin?

[Dogmatix]

Well unfortunately I still wasn't able to change the mind of my Navy doctor or anyone else I tried speaking too. They still insist the military facility has full capability of doing the surgery, and they won't make any changes.

However, I got in contact with Barry Martin and he actually spoke to me directly. He told me to give him a week and he would find out from one of his friends at Walter Reed who's good. He said most of the guys he knew over there already retired.


I also asked him about the West Coast, since I'm stationed out here and if he knew of somebody good that would be great. What do you think? Stick it out for Relle in the mean time, while I wait to hear back from Barry Martin?

Why are you stuck with the navy? Can't you just screw them and find your own doctor and have it done? Or is it a quest to have the navy to pay for a private surgeon? In that case I think it's hard. Medically they can probably resolve your issues, but maybe not in the aesthetic way you prefer, but that's not their priority when giving away a surgery for free.