jawsurgeryforums.com
Surgeon Information => Surgeon Reviews and Leads => Topic started by: joanna on January 20, 2013, 12:35:37 PM
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Could you recommend me the best european surgeons? I have mandibular retrognathia and malocclusion. I am looking for a surgeon who is strongly focused on the aesthetic result of the surgery.
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http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/en/mommaerts.aspx (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/en/mommaerts.aspx)
supposed to be good
Drs. H.K.T. de Jonge
http://www.atriummc.nl/Specialisten.6647.0.html (http://www.atriummc.nl/Specialisten.6647.0.html)
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Thank you for your reply. Should I judge the quality of the surgeon by the price of the surgery? Does the higher price mean the better surgeon? What prices for the double-jaw surgery are considered high or low? I ask about this because I am not familiar with the costs of the surgery in western Europe. I live in Poland where the price for the double-jaw surgery is only 5.000 - 6.000 EUR...
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I'd be careful about getting jaw surgery in Poland. Mommaerts is supposed to be one of the best in the world, and he's very affordable. It's probably worth consulting with him if you can.
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Agree with Mommaerts. Raffaini has some spectacular results on his website.
http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php (http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php)
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I will never have a surgery in Poland. I choosed the surgeon that is considered to be the best in Poland but I had to finish our cooperation after seeing some of the results of his work - mandibular asymmetries, the reposition of the nasal septum as a side effect of the surgery or nose asymmetry...
I have just got replies from Dr Mommaerts and Dr Raffaini. Dr Mommaerts price for the surgery is between 6.000 - 9.000 EUR whereas Dr Raffaini's is betweenen 13.000 - 16.000 EUR (bimaxillary). Why there is such difference between those surgeons? Why Dr Mommaerts is so cheap in comparison with the rest?
Have you heard about Dr Kurt Vinzenz from Germany and Prof. Hermann Sailor from Switzerland?
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I've heard a lot of good things about Dr. Mommaerts and I just saw Dr. Raffaini HOLY GOD the first 3 results are beyond spectacular! :o :o
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I will never have a surgery in Poland. I choosed the surgeon that is considered to be the best in Poland but I had to finish our cooperation after seeing some of the results of his work - mandibular asymmetries, the reposition of the nasal septum as a side effect of the surgery or nose asymmetry...
I have just got replies from Dr Mommaerts and Dr Raffaini. Dr Mommaerts price for the surgery is between 6.000 - 9.000 EUR whereas Dr Raffaini's is betweenen 13.000 - 16.000 EUR (bimaxillary). Why there is such difference between those surgeons? Why Dr Mommaerts is so cheap in comparison with the rest?
Have you heard about Dr Kurt Vinzenz from Germany and Prof. Hermann Sailor from Switzerland?
Dr Mommaerts has excellent credentials, he is a plastic surgeon and maxillofacial surgeon.
From what I've read he is very close to retiring so if I were you I'd schedule a consultation as soon as possible.
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Agree with Mommaerts. Raffaini has some spectacular results on his website.
http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php (http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php)
Raffaini has some beautiful results on his website. Check out the rhinoplasty before and afters too. Many are combined with jaw surgery. The transformations are amazing.
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Wow raffaini's results are truly incredible. This surgery truly makes a difference for people in their early 20s. Once youre approaching middle age its like who gives a s**t not a huge difference in the before and afters unless youre doing it for some sort of functional reason. But wow if youre smart enough to do it in your late teens or early twenties really does seem lifechanging...
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Wow raffaini's results are truly incredible. This surgery truly makes a difference for people in their early 20s. Once youre approaching middle age its like who gives a s**t not a huge difference in the before and afters unless youre doing it for some sort of functional reason. But wow if youre smart enough to do it in your late teens or early twenties really does seem lifechanging...
LOL sad but true :'( but let's not forget Marisama who is 27-28? and had a wonderful result
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Dr Mommaerts has excellent credentials, he is a plastic surgeon and maxillofacial surgeon.
From what I've read he is very close to retiring so if I were you I'd schedule a consultation as soon as possible.
Where did you read that?
It was only last year that he was appointed Professor of UZ Brussels (university hospital), seems unlikely that he is anywhere near close to retiring.
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Where did you read that?
It was only last year that he was appointed Professor of UZ Brussels (university hospital), seems unlikely that he is anywhere near close to retiring.
female patient that had surgery with him recently (http://lookyourbestuk.com (http://lookyourbestuk.com)) his successor is supposed to be a woman
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female patient that had surgery with him recently (http://lookyourbestuk.com (http://lookyourbestuk.com)) his successor is supposed to be a woman
Can't find the post you were referring to so I'll ask him myself next time I see him ;)
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Do you know if the great surgeons follow some special aesthetic rules when they are planning the surgery? What kind of rules? I know that Prof. Sailer uses the Ante-Face (Nefretiti was the prototype of Ante-Face) as a technique of an aesthetic optimization...
One of my greatest fear connected with the surgery is that my nose will change as a side effect of the rotation of maxilla... I would not like to have more snub nose... Do the surgeons have some special ways to avoid it? Special sutures etc?
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Do you know if the great surgeons follow some special aesthetic rules when they are planning the surgery? What kind of rules? I know that Prof. Sailer uses the Ante-Face (Nefretiti was the prototype of Ante-Face) as a technique of an aesthetic optimization...
One of my greatest fear connected with the surgery is that my nose will change as a side effect of the rotation of maxilla... I would not like to have more snub nose... Do the surgeons have some special ways to avoid it? Special sutures etc?
Once the maxilla is moved forward your nose will change (nostrils are going to flare) those sutures that are made to the alar do very little to prevent that from happening.
It's not uncommon for people to get a septoplasty, turbinectomy and columelloplasty during or after orthognathic surgery
Prof Mommaerts prefers to do any sort of nose work once the swelling has gone substantially down (~2 months or so post-op)
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Well im not saying its pointless, esp. If youre doing it for functional reasons. But past 30 your skin and hair become dull and saggy so the structural change doesnt look as transformative. Most 30 year old plus patients who ive seen just look different in their afters or more proportional but they dont tend to look as great as 20 year olds do in their afters. I think its cause younger peoples soft tissue adapts or springs bac better.
Skin sagging at age 30?! Then you gotta have some truly s**tty genes lol.
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Skin sagging at age 30?! Then you gotta have some truly s**tty genes lol.
yeah, maybe. :-[
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yeah, maybe. :-[
Holy s**t, I didn't realize there actually were people in their early 30's experiencing saggyness. Just thought you made an absurd statement, but I now realize how mean it was of me to write what I did. I apologize :-[
Although, it is pretty ignorant of you to write that "people" in their 30's have saggy skin (my dad had taut-as-s**t-skin until his 40's, which I assume is pretty common if you live a decently healthy lifestyle).
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forgot about Dr. Hernández Alfaro http://institutomaxilofacial.com/ (http://institutomaxilofacial.com/)
I wonder what his rate is for double jaw surgery
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forgot about Dr. Hernández Alfaro http://institutomaxilofacial.com/ (http://institutomaxilofacial.com/)
I wonder what his rate is for double jaw surgery
wow, wherever that Dr. Hernandez is looks like some kind of paradise. It almost seems like it would be a joy to have surgery and recover there. Nice website and results too....
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forgot about Dr. Hernández Alfaro http://institutomaxilofacial.com/ (http://institutomaxilofacial.com/)
I wonder what his rate is for double jaw surgery
I see he sometimes does surgery first, interesting.
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Barcelona
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I see he sometimes does surgery first, interesting.
Actually M, I think that's one of the new trends, common in Korea as well, to do the jaw surgery first and then apply the braces. Saves a TON of time and also I've heard can give amazing results.
Another pretty interesting thing is he's developed a technique for surgery so that surgery only takes around an hour. I've heard that's true of Schendel too, his surgeries are a lot shorter.
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Do you know what is the estimated price of the double-jaw surgery performed by Prof. Sailer?
Beauty & Success with the Help of a Reverse Facelift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K62MdksqAys#ws)
This is a video with some examples of his results. I wonder if the patients who agreed to show their documentation, had a special discounts in the price of the surgery...
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Do you know what is the estimated price of the double-jaw surgery performed by Prof. Sailer?
Beauty & Success with the Help of a Reverse Facelift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K62MdksqAys#ws)
This is a video with some examples of his results. I wonder if the patients who agreed to show their documentation, had a special discounts in the price of the surgery...
Doubtful, believe it or not there are certain people that enjoy that sort of attention (being featured as a before/after on a plastic surgery presentation/website)
Sailer is such a nut, I'm not sure why you're even considering him
Your best bet for double jaw surgery are: Mommaerts (Brussels), Raffaini (Parma), Alfaro (Barcelona), Thuau (London) I know of another guy in Norway but I can't remember his name
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what the f**k is this meeting anyway!? lolol god, talk about the dehumanization of culture.
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oh my god, you actually have just got to laugh at that s**t. thank god most people don't actually think this way.
yeah, that woman got jaw surgery so she could become a f**king airline stewardess, great.
i mean the whole thing was actually terribly misogynistic as well. "being ugly is an advantage for female politicians..."
i mean this guy is straight up crazy. i'll tell you what his universal ideal of beauty is, all his patients ended up looking like
trannys.
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Sailer has pretty much the same aesthetic philosophy as Arnett and Gunson.
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Sailer has pretty much the same aesthetic philosophy as Arnett and Gunson.
not quite, he pushes for bi-max rotation yes, but have you seen his gallery of freakshows?
http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/aesthetische_chirurgie/jochbeinaufbau.html (http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/aesthetische_chirurgie/jochbeinaufbau.html)
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not quite, he pushes for bi-max rotation yes, but have you seen his gallery of freakshows?
http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/aesthetische_chirurgie/jochbeinaufbau.html (http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/aesthetische_chirurgie/jochbeinaufbau.html)
I'm talking about their common belief in the importance of very prominent and flat jaws. Unlike A/G, Sailer seems like a quack.
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Actually M, I think that's one of the new trends, common in Korea as well, to do the jaw surgery first and then apply the braces. Saves a TON of time and also I've heard can give amazing results.
Another pretty interesting thing is he's developed a technique for surgery so that surgery only takes around an hour. I've heard that's true of Schendel too, his surgeries are a lot shorter.
Damn, wish I'd consulted with him first, I'm 38 and the time saving aspect is very appealing!
Sailer scares the s**t out of me :o
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@Heavyweight How does Sailer's philosophy match that of A/G? Can you please explain?
On a side note, I just took a look at Sailer's website after seeing his video and what the heck is going on there? His afters most of them are horrific, over advanced, protruding features that are so unnatural and brinking on repulsive.
Joanna- I have no idea what you look like but there are some amazing surgeons in Europe besides Sailer.
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Note to self: Do not go with Sailer even if offered ridiculously large sums of cash.
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Cmonster, Could you post some names of the amazing european surgeons, please? My face is pretty now so the surgery will be a challenge. So I am looking for a surgeon whose goal is an aesthetic result especially, not only functional
I like that Sailer seems to be extremely devoted and involved in his view on aesthetics. However,I am not sure if I like this type of jaw:)
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Cmonster, Could you post some names of the amazing european surgeons, please? My face is pretty now so the surgery will be a challenge. So I am looking for a surgeon whose goal is an aesthetic result especially, not only functional
I like that Sailer seems to be extremely devoted and involved in his view on aesthetics. However,I am not sure if I like this type of jaw:)
We have already told you which surgeons you should consider
Prof Mommaerts: http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/en/mommaerts.aspx (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/en/mommaerts.aspx)
Prof Raffaini: http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php (http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php)
Dr. Hernández Alfaro: http://institutomaxilofacial.com/ (http://institutomaxilofacial.com/)
Dr Henri Thuau: http://londoncraniofacial.com/ (http://londoncraniofacial.com/)
Sailer is a quack, disregard him and his wack ante-face theory
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Why do you think that Dr Mommaerts is going to retire, soon? I have found him on facebook, he seems to be quite young.
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Why do you think that Dr Mommaerts is going to retire, soon? I have found him on facebook, he seems to be quite young.
just a post that I read on a different forum, Prof MM is hardly young, looks like he is in his 50s
(http://www.cadavercourses.com/w/hi/mommaerts.jpg)
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just a post that I read on a different forum, Prof MM is hardly young, looks like he is in his 50s
(http://www.cadavercourses.com/w/hi/mommaerts.jpg)
for a surgeon, that's young.
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He looks mighty dapper :)
@Joanna, I hope some of the board members have given you some great recommendations. From Dr. Mommaerts before/afters and his reputation, I dont think it would be a bad idea to consult with him, also Dr. Raffiani.
Prof Mommaerts: http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/en/mommaerts.aspx (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/en/mommaerts.aspx)
Prof Raffaini: http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php (http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php)
I am not associated or affiliated with either, but their work speaks for itself.
Do a consult, and go with someone you feel comfortable with.
I hate to speak so poorly of anyone but Dr.Sailer, has a rather narrow perspective on beauty/attractiveness and his personal sense of aesthetics is horrific. You are better off with either of the two mentions above ^^ seriously ;)
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He looks mighty dapper :)
@Joanna, I hope some of the board members have given you some great recommendations. From Dr. Mommaerts before/afters and his reputation, I dont think it would be a bad idea to consult with him, also Dr. Raffiani.
Prof Mommaerts: http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/en/mommaerts.aspx (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/en/mommaerts.aspx)
Prof Raffaini: http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php (http://www.facesurgery.it/chirurgia_ortognatica.php)
I am not associated or affiliated with either, but their work speaks for itself.
Do a consult, and go with someone you feel comfortable with.
though you never know, joanna may actually want to look a little freakish --there are certain people drawn to that aesthetic. i'm not joking.
I hate to speak so poorly of anyone but Dr.Sailer, has a rather narrow perspective on beauty/attractiveness and his personal sense of aesthetics is horrific. You are better off with either of the two mentions above ^^ seriously ;)
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not quite, he pushes for bi-max rotation yes, but have you seen his gallery of freakshows?
http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/aesthetische_chirurgie/jochbeinaufbau.html (http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/aesthetische_chirurgie/jochbeinaufbau.html)
Oh my god that is awful. That woman looked beautiful and completely normal in her before photo and the after photo is just awful. I hope she is happy with the result but I know I wouldn't be. What did he do to her cheekbones? They are so high and so big that her skin is collapsing between her cheekbones and her jaw bone.
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I will never have a surgery in Poland. I choosed the surgeon that is considered to be the best in Poland but I had to finish our cooperation after seeing some of the results of his work - mandibular asymmetries, the reposition of the nasal septum as a side effect of the surgery or nose asymmetry...
I have just got replies from Dr Mommaerts and Dr Raffaini. Dr Mommaerts price for the surgery is between 6.000 - 9.000 EUR whereas Dr Raffaini's is betweenen 13.000 - 16.000 EUR (bimaxillary). Why there is such difference between those surgeons? Why Dr Mommaerts is so cheap in comparison with the rest?
Have you heard about Dr Kurt Vinzenz from Germany and Prof. Hermann Sailor from Switzerland?
Wow that is really low for Dr. Mommaerts. I was thinking this must be an old thread when I read that but I see it was just last month. I reached out to his office a few months back and they told me the cost for double jaw surgery would be 32,000 Euro. I just wrote to Dr. Raffaini last month and they told me about 12-13 thousand Euro so that is close to what they told you. I wonder why Mommaerts quoted me such a high figure. I had heard on other boards he was very reasonable which is why I wrote to him to start with. I didn't even bother contacting Raffaini at first because I thought he would be just as expensive but I was pleasantly surprised when I finally contacted him.
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wow Dr. Raffaini is only charging 12-13K for double jaw surgery? are you sure? that is actually very reasonable
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Wow .... I just checked out that pic of lady with cheek bone enhancement and bimax...... Scary.... I prefer the softer look she had before.
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holy hell! Dr. Alfaro performs bi-max surgery in record breaking time, I wonder if this is a good or bad thing?
SURGERY FIRST (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erkY_en7jJg#ws)
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She has an assymetry of the mandible after the surgery. She could have it before but after the treatment it is much more visible. Is it possible to fix this kind of assymetries? Or the surgeon just suggest injectable fillers?
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She has an assymetry of the mandible after the surgery. She could have it before but after the treatment it is mucah more visible. Is it possible to fix this kind of assymetries? Or the surgeon just suggest injectable fillers?
from what I understand first they fix the dental skeletal deformity then perform a fat grafting procedure to correct the tissue
I know that Schendel, Prof MM and Alfaro do this, no idea about the rest
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from what I understand first they fix the dental skeletal deformity then perform a fat grafting procedure to correct the tissue
I know that Schendel, Prof MM and Alfaro do this, no idea about the rest
Why didn't Alfaro fix it on her then? I noticed she had a major asymmetry after surgery as well.
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Maybe it is too early after the surgery to fix it.
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Why didn't Alfaro fix it on her then? I noticed she had a major asymmetry after surgery as well.
Good question, who knows... maybe it doesn't truly bother her? lack of money? maybe she is waiting til orthodontic treatment is over?
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holy hell! Dr. Alfaro performs bi-max surgery in record breaking time, I wonder if this is a good or bad thing?
SURGERY FIRST (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erkY_en7jJg#ws)
Is it just me, or does her mouth look a bit off? It's as if her teeth are too far back relative to her soft tissue. She's also showing a lot of her lower teeth.
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Is it just me, or does her mouth look a bit off? It's as if her teeth are too far back relative to her soft tissue. She's also showing a lot of her lower teeth.
She says at 0:28 that she had the surgery a month ago, maybe she is still partly swollen?
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you know what? I think the impaction ruined her face honestly. while her gums indeed were too prominent and she had a slightly retruded lower jaw, it seems to me she had much more support in her midface BEFORE surgery --she actually looked A LOT prettier before.
Also, her mandible asymmetry is MASSIVE. I feel bad critiquing someone I don't know like this, but it's important in the sense that we should address what might be done. I'd say that one of the cautionary tales to be taken from this is that impaction without some kind of advancement can lead to the tissue having far less support. Also, I think it's negligent for the doctor to have not fixed her asymmetry. It seems to me that her right (photographic right) ramus did not grow fully down --so she should have probably had distraction first of the ramus and then advancement --this might have fixed the asymmetry. I've seen a case where Schendel used distraction for an uneven jaw so something similar could have been done here. It's just a shame because this girl is quite beautiful in the before and I think it's a case where a greater attention to aesthetics could have achieved a spectacular, not just mediocre result.
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pekay, i don't understand what she's saying but do you know if her maxilla was brought back at all? I'm just seeing a lot of loss of mid-facial support when she's speaking --that might have always been there, but you can't tell from the pics as much...
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forgot about Dr. Hernández Alfaro http://institutomaxilofacial.com/ (http://institutomaxilofacial.com/)
I wonder what his rate is for double jaw surgery
they have no prices on the website, but you can ask here: http://institutomaxilofacial.com/en/appointment (http://institutomaxilofacial.com/en/appointment)
I've heard Dr.Alfaro is top 1 in Spain and they have pretty good medical services and an international services department too....the place looks great btw...
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These 2 female patients had a cheekbone osteotomy
SUSANA (Barcelona): CIRUGIA BIMAXILAR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8v3-V_WzZI#ws)
CLAUDIA (Barcelona): CIRUGIA BIMAXILAR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R76YmHvNbY#ws)
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alright so I have been snooping this Spanish orthognathic forum and this is what I learned (regarding Instituto Maxilofacial)
a) for the Spaniard lurkers. I.M. does not accept insurance
b) surgery costs around 12K (euros) per jaw
c) you will be treated like cattle, apparently there are dozens of dental students (soon to be surgeons) that do all the consulting (x-ray, ct scan, dental impression, pictures, etc..) Alfaro eventually pops in, talks to the patient for 10 minutes and bolts. you won't see him again til surgery day
d) his rhinoplasty sucks
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alright so I have been snooping this Spanish orthognathic forum and this is what I learned (regarding Instituto Maxilofacial)
a) for the Spaniard lurkers. I.M. does not accept insurance
b) surgery costs around 12K (euros) per jaw
c) you will be treated like cattle, apparently there are dozens of dental students (soon to be surgeons) that do all the consulting (x-ray, ct scan, dental impression, pictures, etc..) Alfaro eventually pops in, talks to the patient for 10 minutes and bolts. you won't see him again til surgery day
d) his rhinoplasty sucks
WOW. Good detective work for sure. Yeah the results don't look great unfortunately.
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Can anyone provide more information about dr raffaini?
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Those surgeons aren't the best in Europe. And how do you determine the best surgeon in the first place? The reason why these three doctors are mentioned so often is partly coincidence (someone mentioned their names and regarded as very good and snowball effect had begun), partly marketing (good websites etc.) and partly their skills. There are many skilled doctors in Europe that don't advertise or haven't been mentioned on these boards.
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Those surgeons aren't the best in Europe. And how do you determine the best surgeon in the first place? The reason why these three doctors are mentioned so often is partly coincidence (someone mentioned their names and regarded as very good and snowball effect had begun), partly marketing (good websites etc.) and partly their skills. There are many skilled doctors in Europe that don't advertise or haven't been mentioned on these boards.
Could you please name some then? I'm sure it would help a lot of us out.
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new results by Alfaro
(http://cdn.institutomaxilofacial.com/uploads/testimonial_photo/photo/370/web_1.jpg)
(http://cdn.institutomaxilofacial.com/uploads/testimonial_photo/photo/371/web2.jpg)
(http://cdn.institutomaxilofacial.com/uploads/testimonial_photo/photo/372/web3.jpg)
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(http://cdn.institutomaxilofacial.com/uploads/testimonial_photo/photo/363/sandra-cirugia-ortognatica-clase-3.jpg)
(http://cdn.institutomaxilofacial.com/uploads/testimonial_photo/photo/364/sandra-cirugia-ortognatica-clase-3__2_.jpg)
(http://cdn.institutomaxilofacial.com/uploads/testimonial_photo/photo/365/sandra-cirugia-ortognatica-clase-3__3_.jpg)
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First girl looks exactly the same except in profile
What did the second girl have done (mandibular setback, posterior open bite correction)?
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First girl looks exactly the same except in profile
What did the second girl have done (mandibular setback, posterior open bite correction)?
dunno why but I lold
just says bi-max (no specifics)
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Oh My !!! Oh hope that's what the patients wanted.
the second result is amazing. got to give credit where credit is due.
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I'd say most if not all surgeons have results that look outstanding. The only thing that matters is how good their worst results are.