jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Aesthetics => Topic started by: Notctr on February 08, 2019, 09:29:17 PM
-
They were all achieved with fillers: https://imgur.com/a/zdI6j66
-
Looks like Photoshop.
-
It's not photoshop, only fillers. There are videos of the procedures from the doctor that performs them: https://www.instagram.com/dranayanepacheco/
-
As to the photos, I could tell they were taken immediately after the injections. Same clothes and some red marks to the cheeks where the needle went it. But it was really the presentation of the photos for advertising purposes via Instagram inundation and YouTube that got my curiosity. That's because, to the best of my knowledge, the Brazilian Med Association does not allow before and after photos at least not so for legit plastic surgeons. For example, if you go to a website of a plastic surgeon in Brazil and try to check out the photos you get: "
According to the rules and regulations of the Brazilian Medical Association (Associação Médica Brasileira), we are not permitted to show “before and after” photos of our patients. "
Knowing that there are Brazilian plastic surgeons who produce similar results, (Nacul who pioneered a permanent filler called 'Bioplastica' is most well known) who are PRECLUDED from showing their before and afters, on their websites, I was curios as to how she got around those rules, if they had changed, what kind of doctor she was and if she had her OWN website out of Brazil.
Found some listing for her that she had a dental degree. But could not find a website for her with her OWN domain. Instead, found that she advertises her services on a website where they list hair, nail and beauty SALONS.
https://www.beautynailhairsalons.com/BR/Rio-de-Janeiro/1231850386876837/Dra.-Nayane-Pacheco
But still, there was no listing of her own domain/website.
I guess it all depends on how comfortable you are with a practitioner that goes out of their way to circumvent the guidelines on advertising and promotion that are set forth by the medical association (s) of the country they are working out of given the guidelines are there to protect patients from unfair or deceptive trade practices.
-
It's not photoshop, only fillers. There are videos of the procedures from the doctor that performs them: https://www.instagram.com/dranayanepacheco/
Impressive then. I wonder how long the effect lasts.
-
Seems like she drops a massive glob of filler into everyone's jawline, particularly gonial angles. I think a lot in the malars and anterior zygoma area too. God if only it was so simple and jaw angle implants worked this well. I don't trust those results to last and, particularly in the US, all that extremely temporary filter must cost thousands to inject every year or so.
Kinda looks like someone gets the doc's jawline injected too, at the very least.
-
MCR aesthetics seems to be another good one for jawline contouring.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Boj_URxnl02/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bsa3t3CAyvy/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Btbc1U6AJwX/
On their website they claim jawline fillers last for 12-18 months and chin 9-12 months, depending on individual metabolic rate.
-
Seems like she drops a massive glob of filler into everyone's jawline, particularly gonial angles. I think a lot in the malars and anterior zygoma area too. God if only it was so simple and jaw angle implants worked this well. I don't trust those results to last and, particularly in the US, all that extremely temporary filter must cost thousands to inject every year or so.
Kinda looks like someone gets the doc's jawline injected too, at the very least.
The results would last if the substance used is what I think it is. Very likely, the subtance used is 'bioplasty', 'bioplastica' used by a LOT of doctors in BRAZIL and popularized by Dr. Almir Nacul who has a clinic for it and has written books, given talks etc where other doctors on the aesthetic use of the substance.
Only doctors are allowed to use it. But there are clinics where unqualified administer it. Not sure if the woman in the Instagram link is 'doctor'. Looks more like she has a dental degree and quite CLEAR she's playing cat and mouse with Brazil Med association by using Instagram to show her stuff where she KNOWS she can't do that on her OWN website/domain.
It's made from PMMA (polymethylmethacrylate) particles and basically a permanent filler that acts as an 'injectable implant'. But like other permanent fillers, it can come with some risks of LATE STAGE infections or even necrosis in which case the soft tissue where it was placed in has to be removed.
Undoubtedly, it's very TEMPTING to get and again, a LOT of docs in Brazil can do what you see to the faces in those photos. It's APPROVED in BRAZIL and has been used to correct HIV facial fat loss. Not much of a jump from there to conclude it can also be used to create more shape and form to the face in non HIV patients.
Nacul, who is basically the 'creator' of the substance and 'the' Brazilian doc most flocked to for having has stated he's had no infections or serious consequences with it when the substance came UNDER FIRE and with WARNING as to it's use by a Medical Council in Brazil. But again, he's the one who would have a lot, if not the most, experience with it. Other doctors warn that there is basically no treatment for it if it becomes a big problem later down the line.
The stuff is NOT approved in USA (too many problems with injectable PERM fillers or otherwise known as 'injectable implants'). I would caution anyone wanting what you see in those photos--who would go to BRAZIL to get it--to find a REPUTABLE, LEGIT plastic surgeon over there to do it. The woman plastering Instagram with the photos is not a legit PS.
There are some gruesome photos of when it makes complications.
Ref= http://www.diariodeumadismorfia.com.br/2013/01/21/substancia-usada-em-bioplastia-pode-ser-prejudicial-a-saude-pmma-polimetilmetacrilato
-
All the results look fake.... I can imagine in motion it would look even faker. I had jaw angle fillers , and it didn't look anything like these results. Then again, I didn't get as much filler in that area. From the front about 10% of them look real, but then from the profile even most of these look bad. It might be worth it if there was some way of making the profile look ok. Also, after a couple of weeks the results lose their angularity. The filler is still there and the bulk is still there, but the sharp angularity is missing.
-
All the results look fake.... I can imagine in motion it would look even faker. I had jaw angle fillers , and it didn't look anything like these results. Then again, I didn't get as much filler in that area. From the front about 10% of them look real, but then from the profile even most of these look bad. It might be worth it if there was some way of making the profile look ok. Also, after a couple of weeks the results lose their angularity. The filler is still there and the bulk is still there, but the sharp angularity is missing.
I don't think it looks fake. They all look good. This is how jaw angles should look like, and one of the reasons silicone implantants don't look like that is because of lack of ogee line.
Still I think this is photoshopped.
-
All the results look fake.... I can imagine in motion it would look even faker. I had jaw angle fillers , and it didn't look anything like these results. Then again, I didn't get as much filler in that area. From the front about 10% of them look real, but then from the profile even most of these look bad. It might be worth it if there was some way of making the profile look ok. Also, after a couple of weeks the results lose their angularity. The filler is still there and the bulk is still there, but the sharp angularity is missing.
I mean I totally take your word for it. But you know what? Stupidjaws had those kinds of results from his filler work and his filler was macrolane an HA filler and after 7-8 sessions the results have turned out to be virtually permanent. He doesn't even need touchups anymore.
f**k if fillers can give such good results who the f**k needs bone osteotomies. I'm all for a large molecule HA filler to do this work (f**k even if it has to be touched up every 12-18 months, that's great).
I just wish I had more evidence of people with these types of results whom I could trust.
I don't trust s**t that is going on in Brazil. And I'm totally against bioplastica.
-
All the results look fake.... I can imagine in motion it would look even faker. I had jaw angle fillers , and it didn't look anything like these results. Then again, I didn't get as much filler in that area. From the front about 10% of them look real, but then from the profile even most of these look bad. It might be worth it if there was some way of making the profile look ok. Also, after a couple of weeks the results lose their angularity. The filler is still there and the bulk is still there, but the sharp angularity is missing.
But damn, if the angularity fades and it just becomes a bulky hanging thing f**k THAT.
-
Best results I've ever seen if it's true. If this can be done with fillers then we are close to creating Ideal jaw angles the way they should be created. Next step is creating a permanent non dangerous filler, cause this so called 'biopasta' is too dangerous.
All the guys on the pics went to top 10 percent looks with new lower third. Shows you how important lower third is.
-
Best results I've ever seen if it's true. If this can be done with fillers then we are close to creating Ideal jaw angles the way they should be created. Next step is creating a permanent non dangerous filler, cause this so called 'biopasta' is too dangerous.
All the guys on the pics went to top 10 percent looks with new lower third. Shows you how important lower third is.
Honestly, Stupidjaws results with the filler "macrolane" (safe cause its an HA molecule) became permanent after a few years of usage.
I wonder how common that is with HA (it becomming permanent) or whether it was just cause it was MACROLANE which by the way is not banned in Europe (I think cause people were doing too aggressive breast augmentation with it). It was originally developed for the body since its a large molecule.
But I'll tell you its effects on the face are awesome.
Fillers do build collagen in the areas they're injected so it seems plausible to me the result begin to look permanent after years of use. It's totally worth it if that's true.
-
Honestly, Stupidjaws results with the filler "macrolane" (safe cause its an HA molecule) became permanent after a few years of usage.
I wonder how common that is with HA (it becomming permanent) or whether it was just cause it was MACROLANE which by the way is not banned in Europe (I think cause people were doing too aggressive breast augmentation with it). It was originally developed for the body since its a large molecule.
But I'll tell you its effects on the face are awesome.
Fillers do build collagen in the areas they're injected so it seems plausible to me the result begin to look permanent after years of use. It's totally worth it if that's true.
I thought it was scar tissue that builds up over time, not collagen? Unless the filler is like sculptra.
-
She looks weird as fck. Looks like she had some ribs taken out herself as well.
Also, how do you explain this results with only filler? The wideness of his face was diminished. Looks like Photoshop:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bjn1k40n50f/
But damn, if only it were true. Some guys went from 5 to 8.
The reason it looks so good is that on Photoshop, you preserve the ogee Line, while implants make you lose the ogee Line. Ogee Line + angularity = key. Stupidjaws has ogee Line + angularity.
-
She looks weird as fck. Looks like she had some ribs taken out herself as well.
Also, how do you explain this results with only filler? The wideness of his face was diminished. Looks like Photoshop:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bjn1k40n50f/
Those images are clearly using a different focal length, which makes it completely unreliable.
-
Those images are clearly using a different focal length, which makes it completely unreliable.
Well if it's true then it's all we need. What kind of filler is this? Is this permanent and how dangerous is it?
-
Well if it's true then it's all we need. What kind of filler is this? Is this permanent and how dangerous is it?
For what I've seen on her Instagram stories, she said they last between 12-18 months, so I guess it is not permanent. I've also seen live videos of her results, so I'm not sure she actually uses Photoshop?
-
those results look like they ve been touched with the warp tool in photoshop. the angles are always a bit blurry and i think they try to cover it by blurrying the rest of the photos too a bit
-
Yeah they look blurry. Fillers can't create these kind of sharp edges, only Photoshop, not even implants or cw can create this. The only one I've seen was stupidjaws, but some people thought je was fake with a fake account. Could be he was a scammer. In 20-30 years maybe new techniques could create the ideal jaw angles like on these pics, we never know.
-
Yeah they look blurry. Fillers can't create these kind of sharp edges, only Photoshop, not even implants or cw can create this. The only one I've seen was stupidjaws, but some people thought je was fake with a fake account. Could be he was a scammer. In 20-30 years maybe new techniques could create the ideal jaw angles like on these pics, we never know.
I know a guy with the most epic lantern jaw that I've seen IRL. He does not have such ridiculous edges.
-
From her instagram stories, some of these guys are having something like 12 or 13ml injected
https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17958417076184621/
(keep clicking through until the photos with numbers show up)
-
Well, let me put it this way guys....she's circumventing the ETHICS that the Brazilian Med Association have against promoting via before/after photos. She's doing so by using Instagram. So, it's not too much of a stretch that she would circumvent in OTHER ways too.
-
She looks like a creature from the future. Probably put some fillers in her jaw as well.
Thing is, some guys went straight from a 5 to an 8. It would make me very depressed knowing I will fall back to a 5 when the filler is gone. Life difference between a 5 and an 8 is huge.
-
There does seem to be some alterations to the photos. First set (on imgur) look to have a dark outline drawn to the jaw line area. It's something that's ok to do when morphing someone's photo--you know before they actually have anything--but not ok for a real life photo comparison.
Also noted that this photo series is all men with facial hair to the area. So easy for the outline trick to be done.
-
From her instagram stories, some of these guys are having something like 12 or 13ml injected
https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17958417076184621/
(keep clicking through until the photos with numbers show up)
AFAIR filler is $800 AUD per ml in Australia. I'm sure it's cheaper in Brazil, but Brazil is not a rich country. So this would be an expensive habit anywhere.
-
There does seem to be some alterations to the photos. First set (on imgur) look to have a dark outline drawn to the jaw line area. It's something that's ok to do when morphing someone's photo--you know before they actually have anything--but not ok for a real life photo comparison.
Also noted that this photo series is all men with facial hair to the area. So easy for the outline trick to be done.
I wonder if the pre photos were manipulated to make them look worse.
-
Overall, with or without Photoshop, these are the results that should be created with surgery. Making oval and round faces etc. very sharp at the corner without it making it look bloated. So the question is: why I almost never see these kind of results, with cw or implants? Why does PS seems to be unable to create the perfect jawcorners at a consistent basis?
Many times, someone comes to a surgeon with a great photoshop, only thing changed are the jawcorners. Surgeon says 'yeah, I can do it, no problem'. Then in reality it turns out to be too big/too bloated/too rounded/too broad/loss of v-line or ogee line, etc. What's the reason for this? What is the mystery behind angularity of jaws and could we ever create such sharp jaws as on these pics on a consistent basis? Do we need better materials, better skilled surgeons, robotization, artificial intelligence, better software?
-
No I mean there are videos of these guys sometimes so it can't be photoshop.
Also, that would require a lot of manpower to do so much photoshop.
I saw a pic of stupidjaws recently where he still had really super super sharp angles from fillers he had done a couple years ago. Scar tissue or collagen build up I don't know which it was. But this s**t is definitely possible if you get the right doc and the right filler. Stupidjaws had macrolane which is no longer approved for the face but I feel his results were due to the fact he had a big molecule filler put into the page.
-
I wonder if the pre photos were manipulated to make them look worse.
Well, it's a common trick to do. But once I see something deceptive about a presentation (here she is circumventing Brazilian Med ethics NOT to promo via photos), that's really enough to not bother with trusting other stuff they put out.
-
I have a screenshot of her prices in BRL/R$ if anyone wants it. (Are we allowed to post prices on here?)
They say it lasts 18-24 months.
-
I totally understand where Kavan is coming from and I think his skepticism is salutary. We should all proceed with extreme skepticism and caution.
That said, she does have a facebook page as well where you can accrue more information. As far as I can tell she says all her results are from HA filler.
This is exactly what is used all over the world, so she's not claiming to use something available only in Brasil or that's permanent.
But if that's the case, then these types of results would be common for any good filler doc here in North America.
I know one person has already chimed in that his/her filler results looked nowhere as good as what's produced in these photos and moreover, that the sharpness of the results only really lasted a week or so.
This is a treatment available to all of us already so can we get some more testimonials from patients who have tried fillers for jaw angle augmentation to chime in about their results?
And maybe more of us need to go out and try fillers to see what happens. There's like zero risk involved with getting HA fillers so let's go out and give it a try and come back here and let the community know how things turned out!
-
No I mean there are videos of these guys sometimes so it can't be photoshop.
Also, that would require a lot of manpower to do so much photoshop.
I saw a pic of stupidjaws recently where he still had really super super sharp angles from fillers he had done a couple years ago. Scar tissue or collagen build up I don't know which it was. But this s**t is definitely possible if you get the right doc and the right filler. Stupidjaws had macrolane which is no longer approved for the face but I feel his results were due to the fact he had a big molecule filler put into the page.
Well, it certainly wasn't created by chinwing alone. He almost singlehandidly poplarized the chinwing, which I think cannot create super sharp angles. It's highly overrated. If fillers can create these super sharp angles, one have to ask the question: are sharp angles created by bone or soft tissue? It seems to be a combination of both, or maybe it's even only soft tissue.
Many times, implants and cw create loss of shadow/ogee line, not adding any aestethical improvement. Maybe it's better to have minimal movement of bones or very small implants and then top it off with soft tissue augmentation, like SJ did.
-
I totally understand where Kavan is coming from and I think his skepticism is salutary. We should all proceed with extreme skepticism and caution.
That said, she does have a facebook page as well where you can accrue more information. As far as I can tell she says all her results are from HA filler.
This is exactly what is used all over the world, so she's not claiming to use something available only in Brasil or that's permanent.
But if that's the case, then these types of results would be common for any good filler doc here in North America.
I know one person has already chimed in that his/her filler results looked nowhere as good as what's produced in these photos and moreover, that the sharpness of the results only really lasted a week or so.
This is a treatment available to all of us already so can we get some more testimonials from patients who have tried fillers for jaw angle augmentation to chime in about their results?
And maybe more of us need to go out and try fillers to see what happens. There's like zero risk involved with getting HA fillers so let's go out and give it a try and come back here and let the community know how things turned out!
I used fat transfer to create angles but it was gone/absorbed within 1.5 weeks. Fillers last longer. There was a bit more definition with the fat transfer, but nowhere near these pics.
Like with alot of procedures I think, 10 percent has good results and the rest has mediocre results. The ones who got good results will tell you how great the procedure is, the others will keep scilent.
SJ has been telling us how great the cw is, meanwhile nobody who has done the cw after him has had the same super sharp results. Cw became a hype only because of his pics. I fell for the hype as well, but it fcked up everything. Highly unpredictable and results wefe asymetric, creating no jaw angularity, only more blunted corners. Worst procedure I've ever done..
-
(Are we allowed to post prices on here?)
No. Surgeons read the board. It drives up prices.
-
I totally understand where Kavan is coming from and I think his skepticism is salutary. We should all proceed with extreme skepticism and caution.
That said, she does have a facebook page as well where you can accrue more information. As far as I can tell she says all her results are from HA filler.
This is exactly what is used all over the world, so she's not claiming to use something available only in Brasil or that's permanent.
But if that's the case, then these types of results would be common for any good filler doc here in North America.
I know one person has already chimed in that his/her filler results looked nowhere as good as what's produced in these photos and moreover, that the sharpness of the results only really lasted a week or so.
This is a treatment available to all of us already so can we get some more testimonials from patients who have tried fillers for jaw angle augmentation to chime in about their results?
And maybe more of us need to go out and try fillers to see what happens. There's like zero risk involved with getting HA fillers so let's go out and give it a try and come back here and let the community know how things turned out!
The photos are taken the SAME day. Even if I rule out deception on her part, fillers can look great the SAME DAY and they can make sharp angles. But they tend to look shop worn over time where the angles become more of amorphous bulk. So, looking at a sharp angle kicked up on the SAME day doesn't give you much info as to how it's going to look later down the line. Hyaluronic acid is basically a water ATTRACTING filler. So, in places where it's fine to be rounded out or where bulking could actually look good or where just VOLUME is needed, it's of no consequence. But a sharp angle can get blunted by the same process. So, ya, the sharpness doen't last that long. It's not as if she shows photos of the SAME patients a year later. Fillers can look great early on. But later down the line you get the 'Oh s**t. I'm MELTING.' look.
As to perm filler, the Bioplastica, they use that in Brasil. But even if they use HA instead, it was the doctor (nacul) who basically gave the 'recipe' as to how to put filler in to create jaw lines and cheek bones.
-
So she uses a permanent filler (forbidden in Europe and US i think) and the results melt down the line?
Lol, imagine being able to attract all the hot women for a week. And then one week later you go from hero to zero, just because women fall in love with fcking jawlines (goddamn, it's a twisted world).
By the way, the first guy had a nosejob as well. But even with the old nose, he would probably still look good with the new jawline, that's how powerful a good jawline is. But anyway, seems highly unlikely that you get nosejob + new jaw in one day and then take the cast off, and you take pics in same clothes. So yes, it's Photoshop. The nose is photoshopped as well.
We want to believe this is true, but this is Brasil. Everything is fake in that country. The woman is making massive amounts of money now, cause people who want to believe in it and hope it's true.
-
I’m telling you guys right now these results are not real and not practical to maintain. I’ve had $2000 worth of filler to my cheekbones and it did create a bit of a bump out but it didn’t create voluminous bone mass like is shown here. It’s a touch up procedure. And even if it were real the amount of filler needed would be way too expensive long term. This is a procedure that takes advantage of desperate people who want instant results and aren’t thinking long term.
-
I’m telling you guys right now these results are not real and not practical to maintain. I’ve had $2000 worth of filler to my cheekbones and it did create a bit of a bump out but it didn’t create voluminous bone mass like is shown here. It’s a touch up procedure. And even if it were real the amount of filler needed would be way too expensive long term. This is a procedure that takes advantage of desperate people who want instant results and aren’t thinking long term.
Yeah so this is concerning for sure. And Kavan is making the same point. The results won't last.
That said, I've seen untouched up pictures of SJ and after a few years of getting macrolane his results somehow became permanent and the sharpness remained. It wasn't the chin wing obviously but he got like somewhat permanent filler results. I'm only reporting the empirical evidence. I don't know how to account for it.
I love you all and I hope you achieve happiness in this life and if we can find something that can make more people happier we should try and get to the bottom of what it is.
-
That said, I've seen untouched up pictures of SJ and after a few years of getting macrolane his results somehow became permanent and the sharpness remained. It wasn't the chin wing obviously but he got like somewhat permanent filler results. I'm only reporting the empirical evidence. I don't know how to account for it.
That may be true but consider that he underwent a side wing that vertically dropped his ramus for the sole purpose of squaring his jaw, which apparently did the trick at least somewhat. It may not have been “modeleqsue Sharp” but it most definitely squared it somewhat to make it look differentiatedly masculine, imperfect as it may have been. So yeah, I mean if you have a similar starting point and somewhat of a square angle then sure filler could be the Cherry on top as it was for SJ.
Even still, the pics look photoshopped. The alterations are too drastic. They are exactly the sort of thing you do with photoshop. And the edges blurry in the afters?
But let’s say it works. Someone here said 12 ml of filler? Lol? 1 ML is $800 here in Canada. And is this 12 ml per side?
I do however think this may be viable after a side wing or jaw angle implants as a touch up... and you could do it with a lot less filler.
-
So just for general interest I was reading up on fillers and there's a new type of filler called PCL that is not yet available in North America, but should be very soon (or you could go to China or somewhere to have it done).
Apparently the results last from a year to three years depending on which version you get. It's just collagen mixed with a different compound to give it more stability.
I find the before and after results to be tremendous. Yes the first before and after is done with different lighting but if you scroll down to the 12 week follow-up you'll see an entirely objective rendering of the before and after changes.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jocd.12482
-
Some more information.
I may be overlooking something fishy, I don't know, but perusing this article gives me some hope. There's a 4 years version of this filler and the results (while again I see some difference in lens lengths and such) are impressive.
Nothing here like what that Brasilian can do lol but definite shape changes and rejuvenation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5685142/
-
So she uses a permanent filler (forbidden in Europe and US i think) and the results melt down the line?
Well she says in some of her captions it's HA; probably a high-density one.
By the way, the first guy had a nosejob as well. But even with the old nose, he would probably still look good with the new jawline, that's how powerful a good jawline is. But anyway, seems highly unlikely that you get nosejob + new jaw in one day and then take the cast off, and you take pics in same clothes. So yes, it's Photoshop. The nose is photoshopped as well.
They can also do 'non-surgical' rhinoplasty with filler, so maybe he had that too?
-
His nose became smaller. How could you reduce the volume of the nose with filler?
I think the pics are a combination of fillers + photoshop. They ware made sharper with photoshop.
Implants or cw are still the way to go i guess. Unless someone here proves improvement of jaw angles with fillers.
-
His nose became smaller. How could you reduce the volume of the nose with filler?
I think the pics are a combination of fillers + photoshop. They ware made sharper with photoshop.
Implants or cw are still the way to go i guess. Unless someone here proves improvement of jaw angles with fillers.
Why are you saying chine wing is still the way to go when you said it was the "worst procedure I ever had." Do you mean you still got some improvement with it or did it just make you look worse? or different and worse.
-
His nose became smaller. How could you reduce the volume of the nose with filler?
I think the pics are a combination of fillers + photoshop. They ware made sharper with photoshop.
Implants or cw are still the way to go i guess. Unless someone here proves improvement of jaw angles with fillers.
A few ways to make the nose look smaller via OPTICAL ILLUSION:
a: In Profile view, change it's contour.
If a nose looks BIG due to a hump, filler placed above the hump STRAIGHTENS the COUNTOR of the nose and 'VISUALLY REMOVES' the hump so the nose looks smaller because it's straighter even though MORE volume is added to it.
b: In frontal view, change the contours of areas beside the nose.
If a nose looks big relative to the areas of the face surrounding it or'framing' the nose, contour those areas with volume to 'vISUALLY REDUCE' the prominence of the nose.
-
Why are you saying chine wing is still the way to go when you said it was the "worst procedure I ever had." Do you mean you still got some improvement with it or did it just make you look worse? or different and worse.
In my case it was a complete waste of time and money and it was an extremely bad result. It fcked up proportions even more, no acccuracy whatsoever, asymmetry etc. The list of mistakes is too long. Fortunately, I tried to fix it with another surgeon, but i'm still in swelling period so I can't judge the final results yet. But i cannot extrapolate my case to everyone. Some people on this board are happy with their cw. So I guess you can't write it off. Maybe it depends on the surgeon, I don't know.
-
In my case it was a complete waste of time and money and it was an extremely bad result. It fcked up proportions even more, no acccuracy whatsoever, asymmetry etc. The list of mistakes is too long. Fortunately, I tried to fix it with another surgeon, but i'm still in swelling period so I can't judge the final results yet. But i cannot extrapolate my case to everyone. Some people on this board are happy with their cw. So I guess you can't write it off. Maybe it depends on the surgeon, I don't know.
Did you have to go to another chin wing doc to do the correction or did you need someone who doesn't do chin wings at all to do it for you?
-
Did you have to go to another chin wing doc to do the correction or did you need someone who doesn't do chin wings at all to do it for you?
Two other highly skilled surgeons did the procedure. I can't tell more because i have to wait till swelling is gone. But they don't even believe in the effectieveness of the chinwing i think, at least not in my case. They have other techniques and procedures. The procedure lasted 6.5 hours. They had to fix an enormous amount of mistakes and flaws. It was a very difficult procedure.
-
Two other highly skilled surgeons did the procedure. I can't tell more because i have to wait till swelling is gone. But they don't even believe in the effectieveness of the chinwing i think, at least not in my case. They have other techniques and procedures. The procedure lasted 6.5 hours. They had to fix an enormous amount of mistakes and flaws. It was a very difficult procedure.
Can't tell from your statement if you had to go to other chin wing doctors to correct the chin wing problems. But if you don't want to say, that's fine.
-
Can't tell from your statement if you had to go to other chin wing doctors to correct the chin wing problems. But if you don't want to say, that's fine.
No cw surgeons.
-
No cw surgeons.
thanx. happy healing and hope it works out for you.
-
thanx. happy healing and hope it works out for you.
Thank you Kavan. Appreciate it!
-
His nose became smaller. How could you reduce the volume of the nose with filler?
Yeah, what Kavan explained. It's all visual trickery.
I saw these ones, where it looks likes they make the nose appear narrower by building up the tip and center.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BokX558gkBK/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Btbf6qajRgL/
BTW for you guys I saw @dr.zackally has some male jawline results on his Instagram too. I think this is going to become a lot more popular/widespread.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpP57_uAMR0/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BskTBWHjTJ5/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtJqxqYh-p-/
-
Just saw she posted this result with a video on her Instagram stories. I’m confused as for what I’ve read here so far, the angularity of these results is not supposed to last long?
-
Why is there no before and after video? Insane results if it's true.
-
Just saw she posted this result with a video on her Instagram stories. I’m confused as for what I’ve read here so far, the angularity of these results is not supposed to last long?
Literally went from a 3 to a solid 6. I just can't fathom using fillers though. That's a lifetime of expensive injections of foreign material into your face, not to mention your constantly shifting appearance. Seems like a perfect recipe for psychological/identity issues.
-
Literally went from a 3 to a solid 6. I just can't fathom using fillers though. That's a lifetime of expensive injections of foreign material into your face, not to mention your constantly shifting appearance. Seems like a perfect recipe for psychological/identity issues.
About 9-11 grand in USA for 11 CCs of face fill if it's a hyaluronic acid filler. Anything with a sharp angle formed is first to get blunted over course of time. It's THRILL the FIRST day and that's when they show the 'results'. But once you get to the 10 grand mark for all that filler and that could be 'X' grand a year to keep it up, it gets to be more $$ than just getting soft silicone implants (which mimic bone structure and soft tissue).
-
What do you think about this result with fat grafting?
"The ability of fat grafting to create a stronger, straighter jawline is demonstrated in this one-year follow-up (right). The jawline is straightened by creating structure in front of and behind the jowl."
https://www.colemanlipostructure.com/procedure/neck-jaw-and-chin/
-
Good long lasting results with Coleman technique fat grafting to the jaw line. He's very expensive though.
-
Good long lasting results with Coleman technique fat grafting to the jaw line. He's very expensive though.
I think other docs can do it too, or not?
And what do you mean with long lasting, isnt it permanent?
-
I think other docs can do it too, or not?
And what do you mean with long lasting, isnt it permanent?
Safer to just say 'long lasting'. Fat grafting IN GENERAL can't be called 'permanent' because when you take into consideration ALL the doctors who do it, fat resorption is common among patients. Not all docs do it as well as Coleman though.
-
I don't know if there's a difference in techniques, but I had fat grafting for jaw and it was reabsorbed within two weeks. There needs to be enough blood supply, otherwise it will dissappear. Also, even if it survives, I don't know if fat grafts will stay in place or just sag over time. Maybe Kavan can elaborate.
They still haven't discovered permanent safe filler I think.
I see Coleman uses a special techniques.
-
I don't know if there's a difference in techniques, but I had fat grafting for jaw and it was reabsorbed within two weeks. There needs to be enough blood supply, otherwise it will dissappear. Also, even if it survives, I don't know if fat grafts will stay in place or just sag over time. Maybe Kavan can elaborate.
They still haven't discovered permanent safe filler I think.
Coleman technique is most intensive and long lasting. But kind of tedious for me to describe.
-
Everyone on this board, because of their insecurity, follows hypes. Same with SJ's result. He had a good result, so Dr. Z must be a God, which is far from the truth. Almost all surgeons have far more bad cases than good cases, and I'm not even taking into account the huge physical complications, some patients have, only aestethics. But people don't talk about it in public or online, they're afraid.
Now you have these filler results (highly photoshopped) and I'm sure some people will fly to Brasil to do it. Now, maybe you have 2 out of 10 cases that really went up after these fillers, but the other 8 failed cases will never be shown.
I understand, we want to have hope and believe in something, me too. But we have to be very cautious.
-
Everyone on this board, because of their insecurity, follows hypes. Same with SJ's result. He had a good result, so Dr. Z must be a God, which is far from the truth. Almost all surgeons have far more bad cases than good cases, and I'm not even taking into account the huge physical complications, some patients have, only aestethics. But people don't talk about it in public or online, they're afraid.
Now you have these filler results (highly photoshopped) and I'm sure some people will fly to Brasil to do it. Now, maybe you have 2 out of 10 cases that really went up after these fillers, but the other 8 failed cases will never be shown.
I understand, we want to have hope and believe in something, me too. But we have to be very cautious.
Couldn't agree more with this sentiment - pretty much summarizes what I feel about the 'state of the art' right now. It's a mess, riddled with risk and mistakes. Sure, fillers are relatively safe, but they are so pitifully short lived. I can't imagine what sort of life someone would be living where their appearance is fluctuating every several months. Not to mention the cost or getting injected that often.
Fat Grafting is still way too risky. The Coleman Technique is well understood throughout the industry by now - so don't get sold on that. It still involves lots of absorption and mistakes on the part of doctors. Soft tissue changes are just far too perceptible to be messing with on your face.
We just aren't there yet guys...
-
Couldn't agree more with this sentiment - pretty much summarizes what I feel about the 'state of the art' right now. It's a mess, riddled with risk and mistakes. Sure, fillers are relatively safe, but they are so pitifully short lived. I can't imagine what sort of life someone would be living where their appearance is fluctuating every several months. Not to mention the cost or getting injected that often.
Fat Grafting is still way too risky. The Coleman Technique is well understood throughout the industry by now - so don't get sold on that. It still involves lots of absorption and mistakes on the part of doctors. Soft tissue changes are just far too perceptible to be messing with on your face.
We just aren't there yet guys...
Yeah, I think this is unfortunately true. Even just plain old jaw surgery is hugely unpredictable.
-
"On the horizon are more durable options—currently in development are fillers that utilize HA in combination with silk-derived proteins or hydrogels. “Hyaluronic acid hydrogels are obtained by a special cross-linking process of HA molecules,” says Short Hills, NJ facial plastic surgeon Alexander Ovchinsky, MD. “Due to an innovative preparation method, they do not contain any detectable residual cross-linking agent and are easier to inject. These new hydrogels show good stability against enzymatic degradation, which should translate into increased longevity.”
https://www.newbeauty.com/blog/dailybeauty/12658-the-fillers-of-tomorrow/
-
Wow those results look too good to be true. Seems like injectibles are the future for this kind of augmentation. I am waiting for something longer lasting. As an aside it seems like lots of male actors are getting beefed up jaw angles these days, I wonder if they get filler.
-
Can anyone explain why these results, if these results are true, are so good? If they are not true and photoshopped, I still want to know why the results after photoshopping are so good. I've seen jawangle implant results and cw results that made the jaw broader, but it didn't make that person better looking. What is the secret behind jaw angles?
I also saw a pic of a guy that had done jawangles, and he wasn't better looking after the procedure (although he was happy). I photoshopped his before myself with broader and more angular jaws and he looked much better. I was thinking about why with the Photoshop he looked better but not with implants. I still haven't figured it out precisely, but it seems it has to do with shadows and ogee curve. Often times, implants but cw as well ruin the shadows and ogee curve. I can't come up with another explanation. Another explanation is that you have to preserve somekind of V-line on a male's face. Take a look at this example:
https://gothamplasticsurgeryny.com/chin-cheek-facial-implants/
Do you think it's better than before? I don't think so. The ogee curve is gone and the V-line is gone. Also, the shadows are gone.
I have photoshopped him with broader Jaws and longer chin:
https://ibb.co/fMSCHMb
I personally think the Photoshop is better than the real after. What do you guys think?
-
Can anyone explain why these results, if these results are true, are so good? If they are not true and photoshopped, I still want to know why the results after photoshopping are so good. I've seen jawangle implant results and cw results that made the jaw broader, but it didn't make that person better looking. What is the secret behind jaw angles?
I also saw a pic of a guy that had done jawangles, and he wasn't better looking after the procedure (although he was happy). I photoshopped his before myself with broader and more angular jaws and he looked much better. I was thinking about why with the Photoshop he looked better but not with implants. I still haven't figured it out precisely, but it seems it has to do with shadows and ogee curve. Often times, implants but cw as well ruin the shadows and ogee curve. I can't come up with another explanation. Another explanation is that you have to preserve somekind of V-line on a male's face. Take a look at this example:
https://gothamplasticsurgeryny.com/chin-cheek-facial-implants/
Do you think it's better than before? I don't think so. The ogee curve is gone and the V-line is gone. Also, the shadows are gone.
I have photoshopped him with broader Jaws and longer chin:
https://ibb.co/fMSCHMb
I personally think the Photoshop is better than the real after. What do you guys think?
That's a terrible result, I think he looks awful. His face just looks swollen and bloated. He was perfectly fine before I don't know why he did that to himself.
-
Poor guy :(
-
That's a terrible result, I think he looks awful. His face just looks swollen and bloated. He was perfectly fine before I don't know why he did that to himself.
I understand why he did it. He wanted to have more prominent jaws and chin, to balance out some features (nosejob wasn't needed imo). I think my photoshop looks better than the before, and I can imagine something like that is what he had in mind. But he got something else after nosejob + wrap around jaw implant. I just wonder why it went wrong, cause this wrap around was probably designed with computer modelling and it probably looked okay on paper, with the right dimensions. So many computer designs look right on paper, you can see why it was designed like that, but after the actual surgery it turns out way too big, ruining jawangles, ogee curve, shadows, V Line, et cetera. I just wonder why that is the case. Is it the silicone material, lack of surgical skills/refiment, soft tissue or something we overlook?
-
Can anyone explain why these results, if these results are true, are so good? If they are not true and photoshopped, I still want to know why the results after photoshopping are so good. I've seen jawangle implant results and cw results that made the jaw broader, but it didn't make that person better looking. What is the secret behind jaw angles?
I also saw a pic of a guy that had done jawangles, and he wasn't better looking after the procedure (although he was happy). I photoshopped his before myself with broader and more angular jaws and he looked much better. I was thinking about why with the Photoshop he looked better but not with implants. I still haven't figured it out precisely, but it seems it has to do with shadows and ogee curve. Often times, implants but cw as well ruin the shadows and ogee curve. I can't come up with another explanation. Another explanation is that you have to preserve somekind of V-line on a male's face. Take a look at this example:
https://gothamplasticsurgeryny.com/chin-cheek-facial-implants/
Do you think it's better than before? I don't think so. The ogee curve is gone and the V-line is gone. Also, the shadows are gone.
I have photoshopped him with broader Jaws and longer chin:
https://ibb.co/fMSCHMb
I personally think the Photoshop is better than the real after. What do you guys think?
Deceptive Marketing
Hi,
I've outed this Dr. Steinbrech prior on this board for DECEPTIVE MARKETING. I see he's now paired up with Phillip Miller where I see more DECEPTIVE MARKETING in a photo presentation.
Presently, I'm toying with the policy of just deleting links that resolve to what I feel is deceptive marketing and just let the dupes find them outside of this board. For now, I've changed the sub-topic heading to read; 'deceptive marketing'.
Deceptive marketing, especially with photo presentation works on the principle that MOST people are not that observant. Not enough to spot the tricks.
SPOILER: For those of you who didn't spot the tricks used in the photo presentation, jaw/chin face implants don't:
a: Increase the distance of the upper head.
b: Increase the distance from ear to ear.
c: Increase the distance from inner to outer canthus of each eye
d: Increase the total distance between outer to outer canthus. That is to say, the distance of where the eyes span the face.
e: Increase the neck girth.
What does that is increasing the width to length ratio of the photo which is PHOTO MANIPULATION.
-
I understand why he did it. He wanted to have more prominent jaws and chin, to balance out some features (nosejob wasn't needed imo). I think my photoshop looks better than the before, and I can imagine something like that is what he had in mind. But he got something else after nosejob + wrap around jaw implant. I just wonder why it went wrong, cause this wrap around was probably designed with computer modelling and it probably looked okay on paper, with the right dimensions. So many computer designs look right on paper, you can see why it was designed like that, but after the actual surgery it turns out way too big, ruining jawangles, ogee curve, shadows, V Line, et cetera. I just wonder why that is the case. Is it the silicone material, lack of surgical skills/refiment, soft tissue or something we overlook?
IMO the soft tissue response is just unpredictable. The implant material and bone are stable but who knows how your skin/fat/scar tissue will respond and how that will affect your angles and shadows. I agree the rhino was also a mistake. I think he went from attractive to someone you take a second glance at and think "huh, that guy looks a little odd". I can't believe they use this as an example on their website.
-
Deceptive Marketing
Hi,
I've outed this Dr. Steinbrech prior on this board for DECEPTIVE MARKETING. I see he's now paired up with Phillip Miller where I see more DECEPTIVE MARKETING in a photo presentation.
Presently, I'm toying with the policy of just deleting links that resolve to what I feel is deceptive marketing and just let the dupes find them outside of this board. For now, I've changed the sub-topic heading to read; 'deceptive marketing'.
Deceptive marketing, especially with photo presentation works on the principle that MOST people are not that observant. Not enough to spot the tricks.
SPOILER: For those of you who didn't spot the tricks used in the photo presentation, jaw/chin face implants don't:
a: Increase the distance of the upper head.
b: Increase the distance from ear to ear.
c: Increase the distance from inner to outer canthus of each eye
d: Increase the total distance between outer to outer canthus. That is to say, the distance of where the eyes span the face.
e: Increase the neck girth.
What does that is increasing the width to length ratio of the photo which is PHOTO MANIPULATION.
I also thought this but wasn't sure if it was an illusion
-
I also thought this but wasn't sure if it was an illusion
Take out a ruler.
-
Hi Kavan, the second picture was taken from more upclose. I think it's really the result of implants. These implants made the jaw and also a bit of the upper jaw broader, which make it seem like his whole face is broader. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, it's a s**t result. If this is their best result, then imagine all other results.
-
Hi Kavan, the second picture was taken from more upclose. I think it's really the result of implants. These implants made the jaw and also a bit of the upper jaw broader, which make it seem like his whole face is broader. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, it's a s**t result. If this is their best result, then imagine all other results.
We should actually be able to tell by comparing before/after ratios between neck width and something that should be a vertical constant like ear height to see if the photo was manipulated.
-
We should actually be able to tell by comparing before/after ratios between neck width and something that should be a vertical constant like ear height to see if the photo was manipulated.
A baby can Photoshop the after better than this. I made a Photoshop, only changed fout spots. Why would anyone post a botched Photoshop on his website? I think this is implant. If it wasn't an implant and only Photoshop, the shadows would be different and the cheeks wouldn't be so 'full'. Also, it looks very silocone-like.
I don't even know why they put this on their website as a good result. It's everything you don't want after wrap around. Horrible result.
-
Hi Kavan, the second picture was taken from more upclose. I think it's really the result of implants. These implants made the jaw and also a bit of the upper jaw broader, which make it seem like his whole face is broader. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, it's a s**t result. If this is their best result, then imagine all other results.
When photos are taken more up close, there is more of a 'fish bowl' effect to them and not the width INCREASES as you see there. Fishbowling is when the CENTRAL face sticks out more. Salient issue here is DECEPTION was used to give more width where it would not be.
-
Couple observations...
a) we don’t know that this is their “best” result. Why would excellent results want themselves exposed on a PS website? Is Klohe Kardashians before/after on the surgeon’s website? Because she had very notable improvement.
B) how do we know this patient didn’t rush into this surgery without understanding aesthetics and/or is not an observant person in general and so based his decision on the instinct of wanting a wider jaw and so demanded a large implant? How do we know this was 100% the surgeon’s aesthetic vision and not the patients?
-
Couple observations...
a) we don’t know that this is their “best” result. Why would excellent results want themselves exposed on a PS website? Is Klohe Kardashians before/after on the surgeon’s website? Because she had very notable improvement.
B) how do we know this patient didn’t rush into this surgery without understanding aesthetics and/or is not an observant person in general and so based his decision on the instinct of wanting a wider jaw and so demanded a large implant? How do we know this was 100% the surgeon’s aesthetic vision and not the patients?
Holy s**t, did she have bone shaving + nosejob or did she loose weight? Or is it the extreme make up? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPfQ1yrzhTw
This is the big tall sister, right?
-
Holy s**t, did she have bone shaving + nosejob or did she loose weight? Or is it the extreme make up? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPfQ1yrzhTw
This is the big tall sister, right?
Dude she has clown-tier makeup in that vid. I could f**king look like that with that much paint on my face.
-
Sorry guys I meant Kyle Jenner.. . she looks like a completely different person. I mean they’ve all had PS but Kylie got the best results. Like forget about fixing flaws, her face looks totally estrogenized in the after.
-
Sorry guys I meant Kyle Jenner.. . she looks like a completely different person. I mean they’ve all had PS but Kylie got the best results. Like forget about fixing flaws, her face looks totally estrogenized in the after.
She looked natural and cute before. She looks fake now. Fake tits, fake nose, fake lips. I don't know if she had some boneshaving or something as well. I'm no fan of lipfilling at all. Always looks fake and gives fish lips. These 'stars' have so much money and still manage to look fake. Tells you about the state of plastic surgery. I don't know a single star that looked better after PS.
-
She looked natural and cute before. She looks fake now. Fake tits, fake nose, fake lips. I don't know if she had some boneshaving or something as well.
Disagree, she's way hotter in the after IMO. Maybe a bite fake but more attractive.
-
She looked natural and cute before. She looks fake now. Fake tits, fake nose, fake lips. I don't know if she had some boneshaving or something as well. I'm no fan of lipfilling at all. Always looks fake and gives fish lips. These 'stars' have so much money and still manage to look fake. Tells you about the state of plastic surgery. I don't know a single star that looked better after PS.
Dude if you don't think she looks better in the after photo idk what you think anyone could ever hope to get out of PS. Part of the fakeness is her thicker foundation, painted eyebrows and eyelash extensions. Her chin/jaw was feminized almost perfectly.
-
Dude if you don't think she looks better in the after photo idk what you think anyone could ever hope to get out of PS. Part of the fakeness is her thicker foundation, painted eyebrows and eyelash extensions. Her chin/jaw was feminized almost perfectly.
Emphasis on “perfect.” Also her cheekbones look higher, like Kim’s. Nasolabial folds gone. I don’t really pay attention to noses because mine has never been a flaw so I don’t know what makes for a good nose but just one glance at her after and I can tell it’s more attractive.
-
Dude if you don't think she looks better in the after photo idk what you think anyone could ever hope to get out of PS. Part of the fakeness is her thicker foundation, painted eyebrows and eyelash extensions. Her chin/jaw was feminized almost perfectly.
She already looked good. She only has a different phenotype now. I think her nose was better before, now you can see she had a nosejob, the bridge is like it has been pushed down. She looked like a cute girl next door type before.
I'm from Europe, I don't like to see fakeness on a woman, personal taste. I guess Americans don't care.
I'm sorry but people can't convince me this is a good result: https://ibb.co/C0qCTv3
It looks very fake. Her nasal bridge looks like it's about to collapse, her lips look very fake, the fillers on her cheeks look fake. I agree she still looks okay/good but that's because of her decent starting point.
-
She already looked good. She only has a different phenotype now. I think her nose was better before, now you can see she had a nosejob, the bridge is like it has been pushed down. She looked like a cute girl next door type before.
And now she looks like a Professional athletes wife.
Also Ben, you complain about your surgery not being perfect because it’s short by a couple mm and then imply that other people should be content with simply being “the cute girl next door.”
I’m telling you right now, if you want to the cute boy next door, you don’t need a perfect lower third my friend.
-
And now she looks like a Professional athletes wife.
Also Ben, you complain about your surgery not being perfect because it’s short by a couple mm and then imply that other people should be content with simply being “the cute girl next door.”
I’m telling you right now, if you want to the cute boy next door, you don’t need a perfect lower third my friend.
I prefer her natural look: https://ibb.co/9pn7Y8Z. Perfect girlfriend material, very natural.
She should have left it with boneshaving, or I don't know what she had done, maybe jaw surgery. The fake lips, fake cheeks and fake nose makes her look fake, and I don't like a fake look.
I never said I needed a PERFECT lower third my friend. A couple of millimeter chin length can make a difference on MY face.
-
Do you guys think this is a good result? I think it's better, she looks natural and good, but it could have been better.
She has great symmetry, good eyes, nose and skin. With a feminine chin she would have been almost perfect.
-
Do you guys think this is a good result? I think it's better, she looks natural and good, but it could have been better.
She has great symmetry, good eyes, nose and skin. With a feminine chin she would have been almost perfect.
Your edit is a vast improvement on the relatively minor one she actually got
-
Your edit is a vast improvement on the relatively minor one she actually got
Would that be a matter of boneshaving? I don't understand why boneshaving for females isn't done alot more in western countries. I see females opting for a cw for example, to correct asymmetry, making the chin/lower third too broad, while a simple shaving could have done the trick.
-
Would that be a matter of boneshaving? I don't understand why boneshaving for females isn't done alot more in western countries. I see females opting for a cw for example, to correct asymmetry, making the chin/lower third too broad, while a simple shaving could have done the trick.
I expect so as the chin height is mostly unchanged. The improvement comes from the change in contour and angularity.
-
So what about permanent fillers? Has anyone done that? I read this on this board:
PMMA use in Brazil is really widespread (permanent effect and 1/4 Restylane's price). They inject 100-200 mL in butt. I have seen bad results and complications, over time PMMA moves away from original site and can cause granulomes. Plastic surgeons say that if injected subperiosteal, these complications do not occur.
-
Also, could someone explain to me why permanent fillers are so dangerous? Does it have to do with the material, or is the material pretty much the same as temporary fillers, the only difference being when infected, the temporary fillers can be dissolved and permanent fillers not? So, the only difference is when there is an infection, and if there isn't an infection, you are safe? Or am I wrong and does it have to with more dangerous material being used in permanent fillers?
Also, what is the reason fat grafts and fillers get dissolved? You would think that by now, someone should have invented a permanent substance that it safe for the face without being disolved? I guess the ability of the body to break down all natural products is huge
-
So what about permanent fillers?
I think the best permanent filler is Bellafill.
5 years post approval safety data presented to the FDA:
Was the largest and longest dermal filler study ever conducted.
Had 1008 subjects enrolled across 23 sites in the US.
Had unprecedented 87% retention at 5 years
Had an exceedingly high 5 year satisfaction/success rating of over 90% for subjects and investigators
Had a complication rate 1.7% of mostly lumps and bumps. All Bellafill lumps and bumps resolved or significantly improved with standard treatment (low dose steroid or Kenalog injection)
I have read about granulomas. What are they?
Granulomas are inflammatory reactions that can occur with all fillers including Juvederm and Restylane. They are easily treated. Bellafill® was studied in the longest and largest filler safety study ever conducted. The granuloma rate was a mere 1.7% in this study. The majority of lumps or “granulomas” resolve on their own with a very few needing to be treated with a small injection of low dose Kenalog or steroid.
Is Bellafill safe?
Bellafill was approved by the U.S. FDA in October 2006. It was called Artefill then. Bellafill was shown to be just as safe as the control temporary filler in multiple large clinical trials. To date literally thousands of patients have been safely treated with Bellafill.
https://www.drwindle.com/plastic-surgery-face/bellafill-artefill-reviews-results/
-
I think the best permanent filler is Bellafill.
https://bellafill.com/in-the-news/suneva-medical-announces-landmark-clinical-study/
Why is it approved by FDA? Just randomness? In the end it's also a temporary filler, as it fades after 5 years, but maybe some large are long lasting. It is forbidden in Europe.
-
Interesting, I’ve never heard of bellafill before. Has anyone here used it for jaw augmentation?
Is it banned in the EU? That’s strange if it has FDA approval
-
It's used for acne and folds mainly. Don't think surgeons would use it to build up chin or jaw, unless it's in a third world country or something like that, maybe Brasil, but maybe I'm wrong. You read horror stories about permanent fillers. Fat grafts appearantly dissappear after a couple of weeks, unless it's a special method or something like that, like Kavan posted, but even then I have my doubts.
From what I can see, when people use a bit of filler, it doesn't make alot of difference, but when they use alot, it really makes a difference. Some people inject it themselves. I would be too scared to do that (no madical background, weak hands). The good results from fillers are the only results where I saw the super sharp angles. Even SJ appearantly, according to some users here, had those extremely sharp angles from fillers and not cw.
-
Why is Macrolane not used anymore, at least in Europe (appearantly SJ got Macrolane)? Too much complications in the end? Infections? Appearantly it lasts 18 to 24 months, so how does SJ know it lasted longer than that when he did several rounds in a period of months?
-
Why is Macrolane not used anymore, at least in Europe (appearantly SJ got Macrolane)? Too much complications in the end? Infections? Appearantly it lasts 18 to 24 months, so how does SJ know it lasted longer than that when he did several rounds in a period of months?
Probably because the product was indicated for LARGE SCALE augmentations such as breasts and made a problem in that regard. So, they removed it from market (assuming they did). Putting it in face is OFF LABEL use as in not a use it was indicated for. So, if they took it off the market due to problems with what it WAS indicated for, none left for off label use.
-
Yeah, what Kavan explained. It's all visual trickery.
I saw these ones, where it looks likes they make the nose appear narrower by building up the tip and center.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BokX558gkBK/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Btbf6qajRgL/
BTW for you guys I saw @dr.zackally has some male jawline results on his Instagram too. I think this is going to become a lot more popular/widespread.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpP57_uAMR0/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BskTBWHjTJ5/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtJqxqYh-p-/
Damn, starting to think this s**t is true. I have never seen cw or implant results that were so sharp. This gives me a completely different view on the reason why faces are angular. It must be a combination of soft tissue and bone, otherwise only implants would be enough, of Amsterdam I wrong? But silicone implants look fake if the implant is too big. They don't blend into the face. PEEK is the best material and even superior to titanium implants, from what I have seen. But it does not give such sharp edges. Medpor results look less fake than silicone but not as natural as PEEK. Also, it's very difficult to remove if something goes wrong. Advantage of fillers is that the results are more manageble. With implants, you need to design it on the computer, but what if the design isn't the right design? You can't just add width during surgery if it happens to be too small. With fillers, you can. Also, implants have to be inserted from the inside, under the masseter muscle, creating scar tissue and stuff. You also don't know how the masseter muscle wraps around the implant. On the computer model, the masseter is not taken into account, while it is important during surgery. It's part of the jaw. In the future, they will be able to better predict the outcome of the procedures on the basis of the whole real face, by computer imaging. Right now, doctors only use the x rays to predict, but this is too flawed. You can have a perfect design on paper but it can turn out way too big or too small in reality.
-
Probably because the product was indicated for LARGE SCALE augmentations such as breasts and made a problem in that regard. So, they removed it from market (assuming they did). Putting it in face is OFF LABEL use as in not a use it was indicated for. So, if they took it off the market due to problems with what it WAS indicated for, none left for off label use.
Damn, everything that's good is taken away. What's left is s**tty temporary fillers, fat grafts that are being resorbed within weeks and s**tty silicone implants that look fake. What a time to be alive...
-
Damn, everything that's good is taken away. What's left is s**tty temporary fillers, fat grafts that are being resorbed within weeks and s**tty silicone implants that look fake. What a time to be alive...
I've had fat grafts done 3 years ago and while they had subdued nicely just a little bit, they haven't gone anywhere. I understand that it's good to be skeptic about procedures but that also implies not stating every opinion as an absolute truth.
-
I've had fat grafts done 3 years ago and while they had subdued nicely just a little bit, they haven't gone anywhere. I understand that it's good to be skeptic about procedures but that also implies not stating every opinion as an absolute truth.
Yes, you are right. True. What kind of fatgrafts did you get? The Coleman method?
-
Damn, starting to think this s**t is true. I have never seen cw or implant results that were so sharp. This gives me a completely different view on the reason why faces are angular. It must be a combination of soft tissue and bone, otherwise only implants would be enough, of Amsterdam I wrong? But silicone implants look fake if the implant is too big. They don't blend into the face. PEEK is the best material and even superior to titanium implants, from what I have seen. But it does not give such sharp edges. Medpor results look less fake than silicone but not as natural as PEEK. Also, it's very difficult to remove if something goes wrong. Advantage of fillers is that the results are more manageble. With implants, you need to design it on the computer, but what if the design isn't the right design? You can't just add width during surgery if it happens to be too small. With fillers, you can. Also, implants have to be inserted from the inside, under the masseter muscle, creating scar tissue and stuff. You also don't know how the masseter muscle wraps around the implant. On the computer model, the masseter is not taken into account, while it is important during surgery. It's part of the jaw. In the future, they will be able to better predict the outcome of the procedures on the basis of the whole real face, by computer imaging. Right now, doctors only use the x rays to predict, but this is too flawed. You can have a perfect design on paper but it can turn out way too big or too small in reality.
The only reason why it looks like that, sharp and angular is that the pictures are taken immediately after the injection and the tissue is swollen and hard. You could inject them water and it would look like that, once the swelling is gone 90% of the effect and the sharp look is gone as well. Fillers are the biggest cope you can think of, it just wastes money which would be better spent on implants or osteotomies.
If you don't believe me just go ahead and buy filler here and a piece of pig with skin and test it yourself: https://www.fillerworld.com/dermal-fillers
I was fooled as well by this picture: https://maleplasticsurgeryla.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/male-model-makeover-mps-la-2.jpg
The guy paid $10k to Dr. Steinbrech for dozens of ml of filler, I doubt that he still looks like that and that the filler was his only procedure.. I mean even his eye color changed in the after pic.
-
Can’t you just get an implant or CW and then use much less filler on top of that if needed to give the sharp result?
Why does it have to be $10,000 on 12 ML of filler vs. Jaw implants ?
Why can’t it be jaw implants plus $2500 of filler yearly to give/ maintain the sharp look?
It’s a waste of money to use filler to add bulk to the jaw when implants can do the same. It’s only practical to use it to sharpen the edges around the implant
-
Yes, you are right. True. What kind of fatgrafts did you get? The Coleman method?
I'm from Argentina and I had it done from a doctor that studied with Dr. Mendelson, known for using HA. I'm not sure what method he used, I think I might have jumped to surgery without much thought or research, which now I think was completely stupid on my part. Luckily for me the fat grafting turned perfect, no overfilling, no nodules and a natural results till this day (I think I prefer it now than in the first year). I don't have a tear through anymore even 3 years after the procedure, but again, it might have been the doctor's procedure or sheer luck.
-
The only reason why it looks like that, sharp and angular is that the pictures are taken immediately after the injection and the tissue is swollen and hard. You could inject them water and it would look like that, once the swelling is gone 90% of the effect and the sharp look is gone as well. Fillers are the biggest cope you can think of, it just wastes money which would be better spent on implants or osteotomies.
If you don't believe me just go ahead and buy filler here and a piece of pig with skin and test it yourself: https://www.fillerworld.com/dermal-fillers
I was fooled as well by this picture: https://maleplasticsurgeryla.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/male-model-makeover-mps-la-2.jpg
The guy paid $10k to Dr. Steinbrech for dozens of ml of filler, I doubt that he still looks like that and that the filler was his only procedure.. I mean even his eye color changed in the after pic.
I don't think implants can give you such sharp results. Implants push the masseter muscle horizontally (often ruining ogee line), and on these pics you can see the masseter muscle wasn't pushed outside.
-
Would it be possible to use HA paste in stages to bulk up the jaw line and jaw angles? Ie. 3mm augmentation with HA paste, wait 6 months for it to set then another 3mm on top etc and build it up like that
-
I'm from Argentina and I had it done from a doctor that studied with Dr. Mendelson, known for using HA. I'm not sure what method he used, I think I might have jumped to surgery without much thought or research, which now I think was completely stupid on my part. Luckily for me the fat grafting turned perfect, no overfilling, no nodules and a natural results till this day (I think I prefer it now than in the first year). I don't have a tear through anymore even 3 years after the procedure, but again, it might have been the doctor's procedure or sheer luck.
You had it done in Argentina?
-
How much does it cost for Coleman to do jawline and angles?
Does he take your fat from your hip or somewhere? Are all the procedures done under local of general anaesthetic?
-
You had it done in Argentina?
Yup!
-
So what about permanent fillers? Has anyone done that? I read this on this board:
PMMA use in Brazil is really widespread (permanent effect and 1/4 Restylane's price). They inject 100-200 mL in butt. I have seen bad results and complications, over time PMMA moves away from original site and can cause granulomes. Plastic surgeons say that if injected subperiosteal, these complications do not occur.
Whoa she just put up some horror stories from permanent filler. Some Brazilian guy over-filled these poor people with it.
-
Whoa she just put up some horror stories from permanent filler. Some Brazilian guy over-filled these poor people with it.
You can find articles about this by Googling the photo which will call up a bunch of articles BUT they are NOT in English. I have Google Chrome and it makes a TRANSLATION of the articles.
-
You can find articles about this by Googling the photo which will call up a bunch of articles BUT they are NOT in English. I have Google Chrome and it makes a TRANSLATION of the articles.
I found an English article from the daily mail here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6470649/Patients-reveal-distorted-features-dozens-come-forward-sue-Brazilian-plastic-surgeon.html)
There's also this page by one of the victims https://www.dfg.com.br/relato/denuncia-crm.html
He's looking wayyy better in the video interviews, thank god. Sounds like it's been a huge emotional ordeal though.
-
I found an English article from the daily mail here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6470649/Patients-reveal-distorted-features-dozens-come-forward-sue-Brazilian-plastic-surgeon.html)
There's also this page by one of the victims https://www.dfg.com.br/relato/denuncia-crm.html
He's looking wayyy better in the video interviews, thank god. Sounds like it's been a huge emotional ordeal though.
good find.
-
If surgeons themselves say 'don't use permanent fillers', then never use them. In case of an infection, you will have big problems, as you can see with these patients. Even temporary fillers can cause infection, especially on top of an implant. All permanent fillers are banned in Europe.
-
Fillers for the right individual could be a good option. Your face will still lose volume after jaw, chin implants or a bone cutting procedure.
Adding filler would allow you to maintain a good outcome and have more control over the look you want.
-
What about peek implants?