jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Aesthetics => Topic started by: beautyislife on April 02, 2020, 02:03:06 PM
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I had double jaw surgery just about 2 months ago. I feel as if I wasn't advanced enough, especially for my lower jaw. Things still look recessed at my mouth area. I think I could use further advancement, and I'm trying to sort through my options there. In addition to that, there are a number of other things that I am finding I don't like. My front profile looks worse, my eyes appear too setback and my face looks too wide for my lower third and it seems to still cast short. I also thought I would get much more upper lip curvature, but that seems to be hit or miss on the photos I've taken.
I will say, the side profile looks better than pre-op, I didn't have any complications (well, so far), and my breathing has improved a lot. I'm just looking to find out what would be beneficial for me aesthetically now. I plan to discuss this in my upcoming post-op check in, but wanted some advice beforehand.
In order to get more projection, I've been looking at either a genioplasty or a chin wing. I managed to get a hold of one of the chin wing docs, and they said it could be possible (hinges on nerve location and cuts made now) to still have a chin wing, but I'd need hardware removal during the operation. My concern with this is that it it'll elongate my face too much, but I could get the added benefits of a bit more width and projection. For the genioplasty, I'm unsure if an isolated chin movement will actually help me, but I've been looking into this since I could just see if my surgeon would be able to do this or at least ask him what he thinks. Is my line of thinking correct?
Both of those options do nothing for the upper lip, but I believe I read on here that one of the chin wing docs does some grafting in that area. Aside from that, would there be any other option to get a bit more lip curvature? In regards to the sunken eyes, I believe my option there is fillers, and I've been reading into that.
I'm well aware I would benefit from a rhinoplasty, especially as my nose widened on front view, and I plan to have a septo-rhinoplasty but, right now my desire is to have more projection of my jaw. If measurements of what was done/xrays would help, I can ask my surgeon, but it may be a bit of time until I see them again for that.
Short version:
- I had double jaw surgery
- I would like to still achieve more projection and want to know my options
- I would also like to get more upper lip curvature - unsure how to achieve this
(removing pics for now)
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Personally I think you got a great result; especially given your starting position. Your upper lip is fine and you have a short philtrum. If you want a stronger chin, I think implants are the way to go. If you didn't get a genioplasty, maybe that's on the table. But I'd be careful about that depending on your tolerance for the labiomental fold since yours is moderately deep already (not that it's bad- just something to be aware of).
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Great result, and you're still swollen.
Enjoy life, because it's about to get better for you.
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Personally I think you got a great result; especially given your starting position. Your upper lip is fine and you have a short philtrum. If you want a stronger chin, I think implants are the way to go. If you didn't get a genioplasty, maybe that's on the table. But I'd be careful about that depending on your tolerance for the labiomental fold since yours is moderately deep already (not that it's bad- just something to be aware of).
Thanks for pointing out the labiomental fold, I agree with what you said. It is a bit deep and ideally I'd like to correct that as well. I'd prefer going down the genio/sliding genio or chin wing route, I don't really want a chin implant.
Great result, and you're still swollen.
Enjoy life, because it's about to get better for you.
Thanks. I didn't realize I was still noticeably swollen, I thought most of it would be gone by now.
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You got a good result. But you might want to consider a diagonally downward and outward genio (not a sliding genio or chin wing) if what I've shown addresses your contention of 'not enough'.
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You got a good result. But you might want to consider a diagonally downward and outward genio (not a sliding genio or chin wing) if what I've shown addresses your contention of 'not enough'.
Thank you for the morph. I think that at least gets the chin in line where I'd like it to be, I'm just unsure what it'd look like from the front. I did speak with my surgeon and they indicated I should wait another 4 - 5 months due to the swelling and then he'd be open to a genioplasty or discussing other options. I may bump this thread once I have all the information available (his input, potentially one of the chin wing docs actual analysis if it's possible) that way I can get more accurate advice.
Thanks all!
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I don't see an aesthethical inprovement from the front tbh due to lack of ogeeline, but it could be still swelling. From profile, yes.
I personally don't understand the choice for jaw surgery while you could have done something like genio.
I don't think you need more projection. You didn't need something to be done on jaw. Let's hope it's swelling.
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I don't see an aesthethical inprovement from the front tbh due to lack of ogeeline, but it could be still swelling. From profile, yes.
I personally don't understand the choice for jaw surgery while you could have done something like genio.
I don't think you need more projection. You didn't need something to be done on jaw. Let's hope it's swelling.
That's what I don't understand, isn't bimax supposed to be able to make your mandible more angular, aesthetic from the front? Also, shouldn't maxillary projection also result in better cheekbones and a better LeFort1 area?
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That's what I don't understand, isn't bimax supposed to be able to make your mandible more angular, aesthetic from the front? Also, shouldn't maxillary projection also result in better cheekbones and a better LeFort1 area?
I wrote it before on this board, and this obviously doesn't go for every face, but there's some truth in it:.
Making jaw broader or bringing it forward etc. creates no aestethical effect if facial depth (area under cheekbones/ogeeline) isn't preserved. There's something called forward growth, partially created by the cheekbones. Cheekbones usually must portrude further than other parts (cheeks/upperjaw), otherwise you get a 'flatter' face with less facial depth/optical forward growth. Same problem could occur with implants.
Besides that, you seem to be right about jawangles. They seem to be a bit more rounded.
That being said, everything depends on individual face and partially on luck. But I don't think double jaw surgery creates more angularity by definition. It's supposed to make a jaw less recessed, but his jaw wasn't recessed in the first place.
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I don't see an aesthethical inprovement from the front tbh due to lack of ogeeline, but it could be still swelling. From profile, yes.
I personally don't understand the choice for jaw surgery while you could have done something like genio.
I don't think you need more projection. You didn't need something to be done on jaw. Let's hope it's swelling.
Not sure how you can say that when his mandible was clearly recessed and he already had a somewhat deep fold. A genio with no BSSO would have looked comical.
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Not sure how you can say that when his mandible was clearly recessed and he already had a somewhat deep fold. A genio with no BSSO would have looked comical.
How's his jaw recessed? I only changed his chin with this morph.
Besides, results from the front speak for themselves. He overdone it, resulting in a flatter face with less forward growth.
His profile is good, but he could have had it with only chinwork.
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That being said, if there's still alot of swelling, it cpild settle down.
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How's his jaw recessed? I only changed his chin with this morph.
Besides, results from the front speak for themselves. He overdone it, resulting in a flatter face with less forward growth.
His profile is good, but he could have had it with only chinwork.
That morph looks terrible, I'm not sure what it's supposed to show. He still has swelling so he has a 'rounder' look. Need to wait for things to settle out.
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I don't see an aesthethical inprovement from the front tbh due to lack of ogeeline, but it could be still swelling. From profile, yes.
I personally don't understand the choice for jaw surgery while you could have done something like genio.
I don't think you need more projection. You didn't need something to be done on jaw. Let's hope it's swelling.
I don't really like how the front turned out either, but I'm also hoping it's swelling. I was told during my check up there's still considerable swelling around my jawline and cheek area. I asked a few docs about a genio before, and they said an isolated chin movement would not be a good idea because my mandible needed to be moved. I'm not sure what I can do about the front now, but that's something I guess I'll need to look into.
Comments like this don't bother me, so I appreciate the blunt feedback.
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That morph looks terrible, I'm not sure what it's supposed to show. He still has swelling so he has a 'rounder' look. Need to wait for things to settle out.
Maybe we have a different taste. In my opinion, if the jaw is vertically aligned with the cheekbones, there's no need to do something about the jaw.
I just agree with OP's assesment of his own front. But if it's still swelling that has to settle down, then he can wait and maybe it indeed will turn out better than before.
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That's what I don't understand, isn't bimax supposed to be able to make your mandible more angular, aesthetic from the front? Also, shouldn't maxillary projection also result in better cheekbones and a better LeFort1 area?
NO. Because a BSSO doesn't selectively rotate the jaw angles outward so they stick out like triangles from the front.
NO to Lefort1 making cheek bones more prominent. Because L1 moves the area (forward) below the cheek bones.
Better jaw balance via Lefort 1 and BSSO does not 'mean' better cheek bones and jaw angles that stick out from the front. In fact it's a very common let down for male model wannabees who pursue maxfax for goals other than better jaw to jaw balance.
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Maybe we have a different taste. In my opinion, if the jaw is vertically aligned with the cheekbones, there's no need to do something about the jaw.
I just agree with OP's assesment of his own front. But if it's still swelling that has to settle down, then he can wait and maybe it indeed will turn out better than before.
Assuming I read your comments correctly, it's one reason why I'm considering a chin wing or a side wing (if it's still possible). From the results I see it appears the width can be increased, and if swelling going away shows that my cheeks are much wider than my jaw, I think it'd be a better aesthetic result to widen the jaw on paper, but i'm unsure how it'd actually look from the front and if it would be comically wide.
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Assuming I read your comments correctly, it's one reason why I'm considering a chin wing or a side wing (if it's still possible). From the results I see it appears the width can be increased, and if swelling going away shows that my cheeks are much wider than my jaw, I think it'd be a better aesthetic result to widen the jaw on paper, but i'm unsure how it'd actually look from the front and if it would be comically wide.
Why don't you morph your post op pics with more angular jawangles? Would you gain anything aestethically (presuming it would come out exactly like the morph). I just did it on my phone (not going to spam your pics on this board) and I don't see any gains. Now, I could be wrong, but I just think your problem lies somewhere else.
The problem isn't the lack of width imo.
Jaw was already vertically aligned with the cheekbobes, shouldn't have been touched imo. So what could have you possibly gained by doing something on the jaw? Maybe localised fillers could have made it a bit more angular, but moving whole jaw forward is too much imo.
Now you seem to have another problem, that's not the lack of width imo. It's partially the rounded angles, but also the lack of forward growth/depth/seemingly flatter face. But again, like others and you yourself said: there's still swelling. What if the swelling subsides and the depth comes back? Then you might be more satisfied. It could be too soon to tell.
I do understand what you want to recreate with the chinwing, but imo it's like building an appartment on a house. There's already too much width imo (probably due to swelling as well). I think you're going to mess with proportions as well when doing a cw. The middle third and lower third might become too broad compared to the upper third.
But this is only my opinion. You clearly see that some people on thid board, maybe the najority, like the post op pic and see it as an inprovement. I don't know, you still look pretty good, but it's like you lost some masculinity. Again there might still be alot of swelling, so don't take my opinion too serious.
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Why don't you morph your post op pics with more angular jawangles? Would you gain anything aestethically (presuming it would come out exactly like the morph). I just did it on my phone (not going to spam your pics on this board) and I don't see any gains. Now, I could be wrong, but I just think your problem lies somewhere else.
The problem isn't the lack of width imo.
Jaw was already vertically aligned with the cheekbobes, shouldn't have been touched imo. So what could have you possibly gained by doing something on the jaw? Maybe localised fillers could have made it a bit more angular, but moving whole jaw forward is too much imo.
Now you seem to have another problem, that's not the lack of width imo. It's partially the rounded angles, but also the lack of forward growth/depth/seemingly flatter face. But again, like others and you yourself said: there's still swelling. What if the swelling subsides and the depth comes back? Then you might be more satisfied. It could be too soon to tell.
I do understand what you want to recreate with the chinwing, but imo it's like building an appartment on a house. There's already too much width imo (probably due to swelling as well). I think you're going to mess with proportions as well when doing a cw. The middle third and lower third might become too broad compared to the upper third.
But this is only my opinion. You clearly see that some people on thid board, maybe the najority, like the post op pic and see it as an inprovement. I don't know, you still look pretty good, but it's like you lost some masculinity. Again there might still be alot of swelling, so don't take my opinion too serious.
I had surgery in hopes of a better aesthetic outcome (mostly from the side profile) and for functional benefit (overbite and sleep apnea). I played around with some morphing, and didn't see a drastic change in the front creating more width, but it just may be because of the roundness right now. The biggest change was playing around with the cheeks, but unlikely to get anything there changed.
I appreciate the feedback and advice so far. All opinions are welcome. At this stage, I think I'm going to have to try and be patient and wait for the roundness/swelling to pass to get more accurate advice/plan on next steps as it seems to be throwing things off.
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NO. Because a BSSO doesn't selectively rotate the jaw angles outward so they stick out like triangles from the front.
NO to Lefort1 making cheek bones more prominent. Because L1 moves the area (forward) below the cheek bones.
Better jaw balance via Lefort 1 and BSSO does not 'mean' better cheek bones and jaw angles that stick out from the front. In fact it's a very common let down for male model wannabees who pursue maxfax for goals other than better jaw to jaw balance.
I see.
So is it safe to assume that once I've got my bimax and also recovered for the most part (with the majority of the swelling gone), my jaws will look exactly what they look like now, more or less, with the only exception being that if I did a CEPH imaging again, I wouldn't have jaw recession any more according to it?
If that's the case, I'm looking forward to my bimax because implants look like s**t on recessed facial bones, so if I want to look good enough with implants I'll need to fix the recession first.
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I see.
So is it safe to assume that once I've got my bimax and also recovered for the most part (with the majority of the swelling gone), my jaws will look exactly what they look like now, more or less, with the only exception being that if I did a CEPH imaging again, I wouldn't have jaw recession any more according to it?
If that's the case, I'm looking forward to my bimax because implants look like s**t on recessed facial bones, so if I want to look good enough with implants I'll need to fix the recession first.
Assume what you want.
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Assume what you want.
You seem more knowledgable than me so I thought I'd ask you for directions.
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You seem more knowledgable than me so I thought I'd ask you for directions.
As to your question, IF you have jaw imbalance AND your AIM is better jaw (and bite) balance, then the aim would be ALIGNED with what jaw surgery is aimed at bringing about which is better jaw balance.
Moral of story: Don't align your aim for getting jaw surgery for anything else than what it's actually aimed at achieving. If it's too hard to intellectually 'digest' what the aim of it is, then at least try to understand what it's NOT aimed at doing.
From my PRIOR answer to you, it would be safe to INCORPORATE the info I gave into your knowledge base which to repeat is: BSSO is not aimed at rotating jaw angles outward so they stick out from the front and that Lefort 1 isn't aimed at making the cheek bones more prominent.
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As to your question, IF you have jaw imbalance AND your AIM is better jaw (and bite) balance, then the aim would be ALIGNED with what jaw surgery is aimed at bringing about which is better jaw balance.
Moral of story: Don't align your aim for getting jaw surgery for anything else than what it's actually aimed at achieving. If it's too hard to intellectually 'digest' what the aim of it is, then at least try to understand what it's NOT aimed at doing.
From my PRIOR answer to you, it would be safe to INCORPORATE the info I gave into your knowledge base which to repeat is: BSSO is not aimed at rotating jaw angles outward so they stick out from the front and that Lefort 1 isn't aimed at making the cheek bones more prominent.
Alright, that's clear
However, it is in fact correct that AESTHETICALLY SPEAKING, it's best to correct (in this case) jaw recession before getting implants, right?
Anecdotally, as a non-expert, all I can say is, I've seen (a certain implant specialist)'s work on many male patients that were clearly recessed and got implants, and the end results all looked suboptimal.
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As to your question, IF you have jaw imbalance AND your AIM is better jaw (and bite) balance, then the aim would be ALIGNED with what jaw surgery is aimed at bringing about which is better jaw balance.
Moral of story: Don't align your aim for getting jaw surgery for anything else than what it's actually aimed at achieving. If it's too hard to intellectually 'digest' what the aim of it is, then at least try to understand what it's NOT aimed at doing.
From my PRIOR answer to you, it would be safe to INCORPORATE the info I gave into your knowledge base which to repeat is: BSSO is not aimed at rotating jaw angles outward so they stick out from the front and that Lefort 1 isn't aimed at making the cheek bones more prominent.
By the way, I'm not so sure regarding one thing here: If jaw surgery mainly serves functional reasons (according to yourself as well) then why does this subforum (aesthetics) exist in the first place?
Wouldn't fixing one's recessed jaws also result in aesthetic improvement as this subforum's existence implies?
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By the way, I'm not so sure regarding one thing here: If jaw surgery mainly serves functional reasons (according to yourself as well) then why does this subforum (aesthetics) exist in the first place?
Wouldn't fixing one's recessed jaws also result in aesthetic improvement as this subforum's existence implies?
Form and function are not mutually exclusive and can go together.
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Alright, that's clear
However, it is in fact correct that AESTHETICALLY SPEAKING, it's best to correct (in this case) jaw recession before getting implants, right?
Anecdotally, as a non-expert, all I can say is, I've seen (a certain implant specialist)'s work on many male patients that were clearly recessed and got implants, and the end results all looked suboptimal.
Sure. IF there's actually jaw recession as opposed to SELF assessment of such due to undue influence from male model worship where one perceives self recession based on not having overly prognathic jaws.
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Sure. IF there's actually jaw recession as opposed to SELF assessment of such due to undue influence from male model worship where one perceives self recession based on not having overly prognathic jaws.
Is it possible to acquire overly prognathic jaws (while still remaining harmonious / aesthetic) through the combination of jaw surgery and implants?
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Is it possible to acquire overly prognathic jaws (while still remaining harmonious / aesthetic) through the combination of jaw surgery and implants?
The moral of the story here is that requests based on PARTS of what a model has where all of the parts a model has, all together are harmonious on the model, can look disharmonious on someone picking and choosing selected parts but not having the other parts the model has for the total harmony.
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The moral of the story here is that requests based on PARTS of what a model has where all of the parts a model has, all together are harmonious on the model, can look disharmonious on someone picking and choosing selected parts but not having the other parts the model has for the total harmony.
Of course, you're right