jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Optimistic on September 03, 2013, 02:58:19 PM
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I swear I saw this somewhere before. Does anyone have X-rays of a skull that has had HA paste applied somewhere? I'm curious to see what it looks like given the partial absorption by bone and all that. If what I saw was HA paste then it looked quite porous and easily discernable from the skull or real bone (not saying it isn't physically similar).
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Do we know if HA paste causes any resorption of the bone it's placed on like implants do?
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no i dont believe ha causes absorption of the bone. have to look at my old xrays, i believe the HA implants shows up as bright white.
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no i dont believe ha causes absorption of the bone. have to look at my old xrays, i believe the HA implants shows up as bright white.
Show us if you can
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no i dont believe ha causes absorption of the bone. have to look at my old xrays, i believe the HA implants shows up as bright white.
Yeah it shows up as a slightly brighter white material than regular bone- I need to go look at my xrays.
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Thanks, if you can do that would be great. I've tried really hard to get scans from other people to no avail.
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Thanks a lot for that, those are pretty interesting. Are you sure he had HA paste used? I can't see any / don't know what to look for.
As a side note, what's the deal with the screws? Is it possible to have them removed later on? Some claim they dissolve (sounds untrue), whilst others have said they are eventually covered in bone (also seems unlikely).
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Thanks a lot for that, those are pretty interesting. Are you sure he had HA paste used? I can't see any / don't know what to look for.
As a side note, what's the deal with the screws? Is it possible to have them removed later on? Some claim they dissolve (sounds untrue), whilst others have said they are eventually covered in bone (also seems unlikely).
He definitely had HA paste used. You can see it in the x-rays its a slightly brighter white than bone. Some people have screws removed and others later have complications and must have them removed... Doubt surgical screws are dissolvable
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He definitely had HA paste used. You can see it in the x-rays its a slightly brighter white than bone. Some people have screws removed and others later have complications and must have them removed... Doubt surgical screws are dissolvable
With the X-rays assuming he didn't have his entire forehead and malars covered in HA paste I just don't see it. The little bits that appear whiter on the mandible are there in the befores too. The only thing I can think it could be is that little bit below the cut in the mandible, which appear to be floating. Is that what you mean?
And are there any reasons to have the screws removed in your opinion? How long is it before they can be removed?
Thanks
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:). I thought the same thing ... I just don't see it on the xray either
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s**t just got real.
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s**t just got real.
What do you mean? I don't see anything on the X-rays either.
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With the X-rays assuming he didn't have his entire forehead and malars covered in HA paste I just don't see it. The little bits that appear whiter on the mandible are there in the befores too. The only thing I can think it could be is that little bit below the cut in the mandible, which appear to be floating. Is that what you mean?
And are there any reasons to have the screws removed in your opinion? How long is it before they can be removed?
Thanks
I cant speak on Ryan's behalf but Im going to assume (like in my case) the HA is put where advancements were made- chin, lower jaw, upper jaw etc.... Between bones if that makes sense.
Some people just want to have their screws removed, other people have to have them removed- because their body rejects the metal plates or some other kind of complication comes up. It really depends.
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What do you mean? I don't see anything on the X-rays either.
i mean HA may all be hype. i remember this australian PS saying he used it for cheekbone augmentation...didn't seem to do much.
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i mean HA may all be hype. i remember this australian PS saying he used it for cheekbone augmentation...didn't seem to do much.
This is true, it is all hype. It just projects very slightly almost indiscernible. Unless they use a ridiculous amount.
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This is true, it is all hype. It just projects very slightly almost indiscernible. Unless they use a ridiculous amount.
I think HA augmentation is mostly self-perception (no one else really notices it except you)
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Okay, I'm not saying I'm agreeing with any of this but talked to a max fac today, very well known, also a professor at a top hospital --said that HA paste doesn't do much and is really just a way to pad A LOT of extra money. I don't know it's an irresponsible thing to say or what, but I've heard that twice now, since the things A/G use HA paste for can be done with other materials that are very cheap. I really don't know what to say about it though. Some of Mommaerts' patients have had to it to augment jaw angles and whatnot and they've ended up with asymmetries they were complaining about so who knows...
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Okay, I'm not saying I'm agreeing with any of this but talked to a max fac today, very well known, also a professor at a top hospital --said that HA paste doesn't do much and is really just a way to pad A LOT of extra money. I don't know it's an irresponsible thing to say or what, but I've heard that twice now, since the things A/G use HA paste for can be done with other materials that are very cheap. I really don't know what to say about it though. Some of Mommaerts' patients have had to it to augment jaw angles and whatnot and they've ended up with asymmetries they were complaining about so who knows...
This is all so confusing because as far as all the studies can show there is no reabsorption, yet constantly one reads of rumours of asymmetries and reabsorption. Sadly I've never seen such a case (not saying they don't exist). If someone has some they can link I'd be happy to look at them.
With asymmetries, would a possible solution simply be to add more? I don't think I'm a fan of this caking on HA paste trend.
And did anyone work out where the HA paste was on that x-ray? Was it the floating bit like I thought?
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This is all so confusing because as far as all the studies can show there is no reabsorption, yet constantly one reads of rumours of asymmetries and reabsorption. Sadly I've never seen such a case (not saying they don't exist). If someone has some they can link I'd be happy to look at them.
With asymmetries, would a possible solution simply be to add more? I don't think I'm a fan of this caking on HA paste trend.
And did anyone work out where the HA paste was on that x-ray? Was it the floating bit like I thought?
HA paste is bulls**t. What Arnett/Gunson do is that they mix ha paste with your own blood and bone and use it to fill in osteotomy irregularities which is VERY different from just using HA on it's own. HA for augmentation is almost useless.
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HA paste is bulls**t. What Arnett/Gunson do is that they mix ha paste with your own blood and bone and use it to fill in osteotomy irregularities which is VERY different from just using HA on it's own. HA for augmentation is almost useless.
I'm not trying to argue with you here, just understand. Why do you think HA paste is useless? I've seen quite a few results now coming from several surgeons that do appear to have given significant aesthetic results with the use of HA paste exclusively.
What is your complaint specifically? That it's reabsorbed? Can't do anything to begin with? Thanks.
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I'm not trying to argue with you here, just understand. Why do you think HA paste is useless? I've seen quite a few results now coming from several surgeons that do appear to have given significant aesthetic results with the use of HA paste exclusively.
What is your complaint specifically? That it's reabsorbed? Can't do anything to begin with? Thanks.
before and after pictures of said HA paste providing cosmetic benefit or it didn't happen. Oh and nothing from Mommaerts site, his labelling is all f'd up.
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before and after pictures of said HA paste providing cosmetic benefit or it didn't happen. Oh and nothing from Mommaerts site, his labelling is all f'd up.
That's fine. Really the most significant case I can remember is a guy who posted a few months back on lookyourbest. Claimed to have had a HA-paste-only jaw augmentation. His before and afters were quite decent. Are you familiar with who I'm talking about or should I find it and link it again?
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Link it again please
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That's fine. Really the most significant case I can remember is a guy who posted a few months back on lookyourbest. Claimed to have had a HA-paste-only jaw augmentation. His before and afters were quite decent. Are you familiar with who I'm talking about or should I find it and link it again?
yeah man, link it, let's see what it really does.
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yeah i agree somewhat but i think implants are worse. i havent heard of any cases where HA has caused problems, mostly just that - aesthetically - it is very ineffective. i would say fillers are probably more noticeable than ha augmentation. maybe when it is independent of jaw surgery it is more obvious?
i don't think HA is bad, just not dramatic enough or very much at all. I agree implants are a terrible idea.
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i don't think HA is bad, just not dramatic enough or very much at all. I agree implants are a terrible idea.
my understanding was ha is an augmentation, but personally i do not see a difference. maybe in some cases of advancement it is used to maintain the existing bone structure.
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yeah man, link it, let's see what it really does.
Not huge, but it's enough to make a decent cosmetic difference imo.
http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg (http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg)
This powerpoint is rather informative too: http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/cms1/Taipeh%20-%20Facial%20contour%20with%20HA%20and%20FS.ppt (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/cms1/Taipeh%20-%20Facial%20contour%20with%20HA%20and%20FS.ppt)
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Not huge, but it's enough to make a decent cosmetic difference imo.
http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg (http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg)
that's a huge change. definitely lucked out.
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that's a huge change. definitely lucked out.
Ok, now why did he luck out? I've never read a first-hand account of anyone suffering reabsorption. Never seen a photo. All rumours. Yet every study says it doesn't happen.
Can anyone provide actual proof of why they think it's bad? I don't want to seem rude, but this entire forum keeps b*tching about nonsense. In this thread alone people are claiming HA paste is dangerous, ineffective, is reabsorbed. The exact opposite of what the numerous case studies demonstrate. The exact opposite of what one would expect given the actual make up of hydroxyapatite.
So please, please, can anyone just show me why they think HA paste is bad/ineffective/dangerous? I'm not here to hug Mommaerts' nuts, just to learn and make an informed decision.
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Not huge, but it's enough to make a decent cosmetic difference imo.
http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg (http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg)
This powerpoint is rather informative too: http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/cms1/Taipeh%20-%20Facial%20contour%20with%20HA%20and%20FS.ppt (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/cms1/Taipeh%20-%20Facial%20contour%20with%20HA%20and%20FS.ppt)
how come the friggin slideshow didn't include any pics of the infraorbital augmentation? That would have been the real money shot!
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Not huge, but it's enough to make a decent cosmetic difference imo.
http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg (http://imgh.us/Beforeafter.jpg)
This powerpoint is rather informative too: http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/cms1/Taipeh%20-%20Facial%20contour%20with%20HA%20and%20FS.ppt (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/cms1/Taipeh%20-%20Facial%20contour%20with%20HA%20and%20FS.ppt)
where did he have HA? just along the mandible? cheekbones look pretty much the same
He does look better, in no small part due to the cooler haircut, stubble, and improved skin tone
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where did he have HA? just along the mandible? cheekbones look pretty much the same
He does look better, in no small part due to the cooler haircut, stubble, and improved skin tone
Agreed, but there is an improvement for sure.
HA paste was just along the mandible. It's all he had done.
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Agreed, but there is an improvement for sure.
HA paste was just along the mandible. It's all he had done.
It is a good improvement then, his left side kind of caved in before now it looks stronger. No genio?
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wait, this pic of this guy is supposed to be JUST HIM HAVING HA PASTE AUGMENTATION ON TOP OF HIS CHIN AND MANDIBLE AND NO MOVEMENTS!!!??? In that case, they've certainly changed the shape of his chin quite a bit. the depressed sides etc. are now full.
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wait, this pic of this guy is supposed to be JUST HIM HAVING HA PASTE AUGMENTATION ON TOP OF HIS CHIN AND MANDIBLE AND NO MOVEMENTS!!!??? In that case, they've certainly changed the shape of his chin quite a bit. the depressed sides etc. are now full.
So it would seem. Later today I'll try and layer the before and after on top of each other to better show the changes.
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I didn't notice that you're right, his right ear protrudes more from his head in the after
*sigh*
i'm going to call bulls**t (or minimal improvement) on this pic, notice also that while the building is the same, the perspective is different, red canopy seems bigger/smaller-closer or far apart in the two different pics. You can't tell s**t from these two pics, angle of head is also not the same. The guy you can tell is also ridiculously good looking without the paste if it can even be seen in the two pics and the lighting is different, shadow completely chisels his jawline in second pic. Why are you guys so hung up on this guy?
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The main problem I find is increasing definition of the mandible border and ramus. No BSSO or SSRO will make any great difference in this respect if I'm not mistaken. So I'm trying to find viable alternatives.
(http://www.flowersclinic.com/gallery/Chin-Augmentation-1-BIG.jpg)
?
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(http://www.flowersclinic.com/gallery/Chin-Augmentation-1-BIG.jpg)
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this guy had a s**t load of implants put in his face combined i think with jaw surgery --i know i read his case on another site --he had tons of jaw angle orbital rim implants etc. etc. etc.
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this guy had a s**t load of implants put in his face combined i think with jaw surgery --i know i read his case on another site --he had tons of jaw angle orbital rim implants etc. etc. etc.
the site I got it from said he only he a rhino and chin implant, I don't buy it
also this guy, his lower lip size got way smaller from jaw implants only somehow
(http://www.flowersclinic.com/gallery/Kavika.jpg)