Let's talk about eyes.

[Lazlo]

Okay so obviously not directly related to Jaw surgery, but several people have mentioned a procedure called a "canthopexy" which they've gotten while they've had some sort of malar orbital rim type work done.

The whole issue of eyes is interesting because I find that one thing that makes people look old is a degree of "ptosis" I think this means a slackening of the muscles around the eyes? And the eyes protrude more and look strained. I find this in my own photos and you'll notice every celebrity squints a little when being photographed and I find this creates the illusion of sleeker more almond shaped eyes, lifts the cheek and avoids that ptosis look.

I'm not talking about a blepharoplasty or that type of thing, but what can be done for the eyes?

[PloskoPlus]

i have this what you describe under 'ptosis'. Ortho told me that (at least in my case) this is a school textbook sign of recessed maxilla. However, he did not tell me whether lefortI alone can solve or significantly improve situation.

A lf1 will do absolutely nothing.  Neither will a high lf1.  The only thing that a high lf1 will do is give you a higher chance of Infraorbital nerve damage.  Been there, done that.

[Charles-Guillaume]

Unfortunately it looks like most eye procedures in the vein of canthoplasty/canthopexy will yield unsightly scars. Personally I would want the horizontal length of my eyes increased by 1-2 mm (perhaps not required, might just be a neurosis), and the spacing by exactly 4.5 mm (I've managed to calculate the ideal).

How do your eyes look, Lazlo? Care to show us an image? Perhaps it isn't as bad as you think it is.

[molestrip]

I've seen a number of cases where a LF1 actually did improve the under eye area. It perplexed me too. There's two ways it happens I think. First, the shelf  created by the LeFort provides some support for the tissue above. Second, more significantly, the MMA creates more volume in the face stretching all the skin around it. Eyes... there's no winning it I think. I've got a post coming but I think augmentation some day is a reasonable approach here. I don't see why they can't do it with BMP2 today even, just no one has tried it. Go under eye and avoid the whole mid-face mess of muscles and nerves. Even the modified LeFort 3 avoids some of the critical region btw, this is a very hard problem to solve otherwise.

[Lazlo]

Here's Clooney for comparison.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Lazlo]

God this is depressing. I mean yeah my photo is s**t, but why does it seem like Clooney's eyes are so much wider apart? Is it just because they are?

[PloskoPlus]

What is your IPD?

[Lazlo]

i dunno, why? what is your assessment do my eyes look too close together?

I think (and this may be totally a false recollection) that my IPD is 55mm. But I'll get it taken again soon.

[PloskoPlus]

Like all good looking eyes, his are almond shaped and horizontally wide.  I wouldn't say they are wide set however.

[Lazlo]

How the hell do you actually move the eyes wider apart? I mean this is an astonishing issue.

that said, I believe this to be the holy grail.

If you look on the other thread about eyes, all the guys who had amazing everything else: jaws, hair, smiles, noses etc. still got taken down like 4 notches cause of terribly close set eyes.

Not a cue to start posting photographs of guys with close set eyes who look good. Let's stay on topic. We say a face can be "brought together" by jaw surgery or a good nose job? Well a great face can be CREATED by setting the eyes at an appropriate distance --even in the absence of anything else I say!!!

[Lazlo]

Like all good looking eyes, his are almond shaped and horizontally wide.  I wouldn't say they are wide set however.

yah and what about mine?

[triot]

The ideal eye distance is said to be one eye inbetween (I read somewhere, don't know if that's true) yours seem to  have that distance, too. But what I see is, that you have a very wide nose bridge, creating the effect of close set eyes. Most people have some space between eyes and nose bridge.

[triot]

The distance between your eyes are fine. How close set they are is determined more on the distance from each eye to the upper lip.  This ratio tells you if your face is proportionate.  Everyone's got a different sized head so it's dumb to put a set number on the distance if you don't measure the rest of the face to it.

Anyhow, my only concern is the "frame" of your orbits.  I think the ZO will help to pull this area up to have a better shape.

Could you explain this? I mean the distance from each eye to the upper lip must be the same, since it's a vertical meassure and eyes are normally in the same line. Or do I get this wrong.

I need to meassure this.

[PloskoPlus]

What the last 2 posters said.  Also the supra orbital shape is extremely important, especially in men.

[Gregor Samsa]

Also the supra orbital shape is extremely important, especially in men.

This is a super important feature that most people aren't even aware of. A strong supraorbital ridge is the key to those fabled squinty and hooded eyes that pretty much all good looking males have. Unfortunately the options for fixing that don't seem all that great.