Jaw position and the zygomas

[Breakingbad]

One member, ForeverDet was his name posted before/after results here, and although he had great results, I noticed a few things. I don't claim to be an expert, but in his before photos, I observed the following:

-He had quite a forward maxilla. In fact, it was horizontally more forward than his forehead.

-Having a forward maxilla, his maxilla was also more forward than his cheekbones, possibly prognathic. Alternatively, his cheekbones were just recessed.


Now, when he had his surgery, his upper jaw was moved back, and his lower moved forward + HA to the zygos. After, I can see:

-There seems to not be much tenting going on by the zygos, that is, the skin on his face mostly tents up in the mouth/lower jaw and lower cheek area (NOT by the eyes)


So, is there the possibility that in some cases that the upper jaw should be moved back more, so as to be moved horizontally behind the zygomas, allowing them to do more tenting ie. S-curve

Or would the right step at this point be something like ZO to bring the cheekbones even more forward, if such an effect were desired?

[molestrip]

Don't recall that case. Some general comments. HA is used to add width to zygos, not projection. True prognathic maxillas are very rare, usually it indicates deficient mandible. Maybe the case was so bad they had to bring the maxilla back just to line them up because it wasn't possible to bring the mandible enough forward. These movements aren't gentle. They create shelfs, that hopefully bone will over time remodel to a gradual curve but may show up some day in soft tissue. Zygos do indeed tent the midface, obviating the tear throughs. Looking around this weekend, those are quite common in men due to our naturally less prominent cheekbones.

[PloskoPlus]

Male cheekbones are bigger than female ones. Female ones look more prominent due to makeup and smaller jaws.

[Lazlo]

that guys cheekbones look amazing, and his upper philltrum is friggin shorter! and his face is awesome. Turned totally from a beta to a handsome alpha!

[molestrip]

@PloskoPlus Maybe you're right. Have you seen this discussed in the textbooks? I'd love to read it. It seemed to me that male cheekbones are wider but female project more forward. Eye hollows seem to be very common in men in their 30s. I've seen some that are not too. Maybe it's a true deficiency that's just very common?

[PloskoPlus]

@PloskoPlus Maybe you're right. Have you seen this discussed in the textbooks? I'd love to read it. It seemed to me that male cheekbones are wider but female project more forward. Eye hollows seem to be very common in men in their 30s. I've seen some that are not too. Maybe it's a true deficiency that's just very common?

It's probably common in both sexes.  Men don't have the option of makeup, however.

[Breakingbad]

Yeah, it seems like he achieved his surgery goals. For sure his cheekbones look good, and much better than before. He looks like a perfectly normal dude, even quite attractive.

However, there is definitely something going on here. In some male faces, the zygomas, and thereby, the whole eye area, unquestionably dominate the face. In this case, the jaws, and as I said, the submalar area dominate the face.

 I feel like there must be some sort of difference.. hmm

[Breakingbad]

See here, the effect is exaggerated, but you can see what I mean:



The cheekbones simply form the focal point of the face, by being the dominant area of 'tenting.'

[triot]

See here, the effect is exaggerated, but you can see what I mean:



The cheekbones simply form the focal point of the face, by being the dominant area of 'tenting.'

Actually the jaws are dominating, because they are to forward grown causing this effect. This is actually desireable, at least I think this is better looking that the casual S-Curve.

[Breakingbad]

Actually the jaws are dominating, because they are to forward grown causing this effect. This is actually desireable, at least I think this is better looking that the casual S-Curve.

Yeah, I might agree it's better than the usual S-Curve, although my knlowledge is too superficial to clearly differentiate between the two. However, neither the S-curve, nor the effect in the pic here is what was acheived in the case I linked to.  I guess it's a tough question

[ForeverDet]

that guys cheekbones look amazing, and his upper philltrum is friggin shorter! and his face is awesome. Turned totally from a beta to a handsome alpha!

Are you talking about me? f**k you Lazlo! Calling me a beta pre-surgery actually stung for a second even tho according to you I'm an alph nowa! Thanks for the compliment..ish lol

Yeah, I should have linked:

http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php/topic,3921.0.html

Turns out he's still active here. So ForeverDet if you see you have GREAT results I'm just using your case as an example, with before/afters being rare anyway. Hope you don't mind being talked about - would have asked first but didn't realise you were active.

Don't mind at all! Before I had surgery I'd been looking at and talking about other people's photos for nearly a decade. It feels a little weird to be on the other side but it's cool.

Now, when he had his surgery, his upper jaw was moved back, and his lower moved forward + HA to the zygos.

My maxilla was not moved back as far as I know. I had counter-clockwise rotation which brought back of my maxilla down so my occlusal plane was sufficiently flattened. At the same time the rotation advanced the anterior of my maxilla, bringing forward my upper incisors for projection while also eliminating my excess vertical height. So goodbye gummy smile, excess tooth display and a upper lip that was hanging with no contact with my maxilla.

As far as the rest of the discussion...as I have no interest. I have a tendency to nitpick my appearance still so I'll refrain for investigating this topic further . But for the record, I never requested cheek augmentation and was fine with how flat they were pre-surgery. It was just my lower third that I wanted corrected.

But carry on guys!

[Breakingbad]

Are you talking about me? f**k you Lazlo! Calling me a beta pre-surgery actually stung for a second even tho according to you I'm an alph nowa! Thanks for the compliment..ish lol

Don't mind at all! Before I had surgery I'd been looking at and talking about other people's photos for nearly a decade. It feels a little weird to be on the other side but it's cool.

My maxilla was not moved back as far as I know. I had counter-clockwise rotation which brought back of my maxilla down so my occlusal plane was sufficiently flattened. At the same time the rotation advanced the anterior of my maxilla, bringing forward my upper incisors for projection while also eliminating my excess vertical height. So goodbye gummy smile, excess tooth display and a upper lip that was hanging with no contact with my maxilla.

As far as the rest of the discussion...as I have no interest. I have a tendency to nitpick my appearance still so I'll refrain for investigating this topic further . But for the record, I never requested cheek augmentation and was fine with how flat they were pre-surgery. It was just my lower third that I wanted corrected.

But carry on guys!

Yeah, I think you look good before and after, of course better after though. JS is relatively so rarely done and presumably seldom understood by people going in. It's important to have discussion on different effects, different goals, etc.

Oops, I guess I misread about the maxilla movements. Yeah, I get the nit picking, to an extent that's why we're all here, but regarding the cheekbones it's obviously no defect, you just got unlucky I used you as our our guinea pig haha