Can Long Midfaces Be Beautiful?

[terry947]

Jaw surgery in some circumstances can make a person look more attractive. Ex.  fixing underbite or recessed jaw. people have to be realistic though.

Also who's missJ ?



To OP I wouldn't get jaw surgery if I were you. Unless you have some functional issue.

[notrain]

It's my only hope

I had my jaw surgery some time ago and I can honestly tell you that if you indeed go through with it with the expectations you shared with me via PM you will be:

- severely disappointed
- significantly poorer

[Lazlo]

YOU'RE HOT. And I have ridiculously high standards. What every little quirks you have make you look unique (this is not true for anyone, but it's true for you). Objectively, you're hot. Workout and develop a killer (slim, not fat ass) body like a UFC ring girl --you know the ones that hold the title cards. And get the hell off this forum. There are as many women with the sluthate syndrome as there are men. You have what is known as a slight lip incompetence --big deal, you're oveerall hot, not enough to warrant jaw surgery. end of discussion.

[RedLips]

I don't know Turmerican, but (as a straight mid-twenties American female) I like the top picture of the jaw better. It's very handsome.

[notrain]

I'd agree with the second point, certainly. What expectations did I share with you? I'm looking for a longer, more angular face and better midface support - could this not be achieved surgically?

You told me your motivation for surgery was to increase your dating success. The question is not if what I quoted above can be achieved surgically (it more or less can) but whether this will do anything WRT getting women. All I'm saying is: it won't.

[ForeverDet]

You don't have a long mid-face. Your face isn't really adenoid either. Slight chin strain is not that obvious. If you have no functional, TMJ or bite issues, stop investigating this stuff. Stop visiting this site. Step away from the computer. Go live your life, seek help for your BDD/anxiety/self-worth  or continue it. All your measuring and ideal talk in your original post is a symptom of it. It's BS. You don't have long mid-face. You're intense anxiety wouldn't go away even if you somehow altered your face in a way to fit the picture you have in your head of how your face should look. Just good old BDD.

I'm genuinely sorry if I come off as harsh. I so have personal experience with this area and I assure you, it is a major waste of your time to be thinking about this stuff and only fuels your disorder.

[notrain]

I'm sure you know alot about aesthetics but it strikes me as strange as to why you think making a face objectively more attractive (closer to divine proportions) wouldn't increase it's appeal.

It is funny how often people talk about looks not mattering on a jaw surgery forum of all places! 

My point wasn't that "looks don't matter", they do. It's just that you can't increase your inherent attractiveness with jaw surgery in such a way that it would make a discernible difference in your day to day life - except for the severely deformed (which neither you nor I are / were).

More precisely: You won't "get" a girl after jaw surgery that you couldn't have gotten before jaw surgery.

[notrain]

I think it would change my appearance significantly - I've used photoshopped images of myself on dating sites and had a night and day difference in my responses

Just out of interest why do you hold that view though? Are you just saying the changes are so subtle as to be barely noticeable?

I hold that view because I had jaw surgery some months ago with big movements.

Additionally, I have made some friends over at progenica (german jaw surgery board) and asked them frankly about their experiences after their surgery(ies).

You are looking at still pictures made with expensive digital stereo cameras (that's what surgeons use to highlight/accentuate deformities to help with planning). Real life differences will be less obvious, especially because people aren't staying perfectly still in natural head position all the time.

EDIT: The pic you posted has also been tampered with. Look at the background of the before and after - the contrast has been f**ked with to make her before face flatter/blander/rounder/s**ttier overall.

That's not to say that surgery won't improve looks. It just won't improve them enough.

I am just relaying information, not trying to stop you or anything.

[notrain]

I had a short mandible, but we have a similar growth type (horizontal).

I improved by 1.5 points I think. Other members on the private forums have seen my pics, maybe they can chime in.

[overbiter]

I hold that view because I had jaw surgery some months ago with big movements.

Additionally, I have made some friends over at progenica (german jaw surgery board) and asked them frankly about their experiences after their surgery(ies).

You are looking at still pictures made with expensive digital stereo cameras (that's what surgeons use to highlight/accentuate deformities to help with planning). Real life differences will be less obvious, especially because people aren't staying perfectly still in natural head position all the time.

EDIT: The pic you posted has also been tampered with. Look at the background of the before and after - the contrast has been f**ked with to make her before face flatter/blander/rounder/s**ttier overall.

That's not to say that surgery won't improve looks. It just won't improve them enough.

I am just relaying information, not trying to stop you or anything.

You sound like a bitter incel, who is angry at still being incel after surgery. You're right that surgery won't make someone look like a movie star. There is too much hype around a handful of miraculous results that just aren't the norm. Peoples expectations are too high, but that isn't a reason not to get surgery.

I had JS last year and I have moved up 1.5 - 2 points in looks. That doesn't sound like much but it took me from below average to average, or slightly above average. That should be good enough for anyone. It is definitely worth it to have surgery in my opinion, rather than spend the rest of your life worrying about your looks. I will keep improving my looks with more procedures, and I hope to get to an acceptable level of aesthetics one day. I got my bi-max for free anyway, so cost doesn't bother me.

[PloskoPlus]

You sound like a bitter incel, who is angry at still being incel after surgery.

What you are doing here is called projection.

[notrain]

You sound like a bitter incel, who is angry at still being incel after surgery. You're right that surgery won't make someone look like a movie star. There is too much hype around a handful of miraculous results that just aren't the norm. Peoples expectations are too high, but that isn't a reason not to get surgery.

I had JS last year and I have moved up 1.5 - 2 points in looks. That doesn't sound like much but it took me from below average to average, or slightly above average. That should be good enough for anyone. It is definitely worth it to have surgery in my opinion, rather than spend the rest of your life worrying about your looks. I will keep improving my looks with more procedures, and I hope to get to an acceptable level of aesthetics one day. I got my bi-max for free anyway, so cost doesn't bother me.

I don't regret my surgery and I am happy with my result and happy that I did it. I know that Tumerican has to pay for braces and surgery out of pocket (that's about 20-25k € total) and I know that his main motivation is increased dating success. How does it make me bitter if I am merely telling him what to expect before he shells out such a large chunk of money and undergoes invasive surgery? He can still do it, regardless of what I say.

In fact, if I was bitter, would it not be way more satisfying to say nothing, let him waste all this money and endure all the discomfort and then have a big pile of schadenfreude when he comes back here next year disappointed and virtually broke?

Since you had surgery as well and can comment on the issue: Was what I said wrong? Do you get way more attention from women post surgery? Are you a womanizer now (I'm assuming you weren't before surgery) ?
Some food for thought: If you aren't, what makes you think that additional surgery will accomplish what your Bimax wasn't able to accomplish? Why would anyone like you after you move a bone around some mm who didn't like you when this bone was in its previous position ?

[PloskoPlus]

I had a short mandible, but we have a similar growth type (horizontal).

I improved by 1.5 points I think. Other members on the private forums have seen my pics, maybe they can chime in.

Sounds about right.  I was sceptical about your plan - extracting lower teeth to make a larger movement possible, but it worked out remarkably well.  You went from no jaw to a huge jaw.

The only jaw surgery patients who end up looking like models after surgery are the ones who looked like models with a dentofacial deformity before surgery:

[notrain]

The only jaw surgery patients who end up looking like models after surgery are the ones who looked like models with a dentofacial deformity before surgery:

Yes, I agree. An ideal dentofacial skeletal relationship is only 1 mosaic of attractiveness: quality of features, soft tissue, spacing, etc. make up the rest.
You have to have those things already in place before surgery to end up having a life changing result - which some of the published cases undoubtedly had.

[carlos30]

I don't regret my surgery and I am happy with my result and happy that I did it. I know that Tumerican has to pay for braces and surgery out of pocket (that's about 20-25k € total) and I know that his main motivation is increased dating success. How does it make me bitter if I am merely telling him what to expect before he shells out such a large chunk of money and undergoes invasive surgery? He can still do it, regardless of what I say.

...

this is may be bad idea. Not because undergoing such invasive stuff would be irrational action to achieve such goals, but because jaw surgery highly likely can not achieve this - especially, if one is not legit deformed. Facial attraction is very complex topic and just moving big chuck of bone should not do the trick. The very good outcomes one can find around are more like an exception to a rule, a cherry picked cases which does not represent some average. Basically they're attractive patients with deformity who end up looking attractive since deformity is removed.