a call out to the bros in arms - how to deal with the docs

[mike888miller]

Us europe based selfimprovement seeking Patiens come up against the very frustraiting creature: the god in White, otherwise known as the upper Tier max fac syrgeon.

last week i was shown the door for asking precise questions regarding Operation reasoning and Approach. the doctors assistant later told me in confidence that she had never seen this happen before in 15 years. the questions were why below the Level of stuff that we discuss on this Forum (Rotation yes or no, decompensation or surgery first, gne vs man advancement Proportion.

am finding euro doctors unwilling and unable to engage into an eye to eye Level discussion, have had this occor at most of the docs i have been to so far. they dont want to establish a concrete target agaist which the result can be compared, and they are mostly paid by inssurance compnies, and they reley on relationships with ortho s or their Reputation for customer flow.

one doc literally told me that if i did not hide my knowledge (which is way below that of this Forum's dons), he said i will have a hard time to find anyone to Operate me.

this is frustrating as my case is not very complicated, but of course one wants to at least roughly be on board with the plan.

question

- have you guys run into the same Problems?

- what can we do to avoid it, and still pin the doctor down without him being intimidated?

[PloskoPlus]

Most surgeons have a Procrustean attitude. They want to do what they can, which may  not be necessarily what you need. "An ignorant patient is a happy one". I regret letting my surgeon basically snow me into surgery - "I've  done hundreds of these".

[Vic]

If doctors are doing that to you, then just avoid them at all cost because it means they don't have the skills to give you the result you want anyway. The real surgeons want to give you the exact result you're looking for, so want to know exactly what you want from them, so that you're happy in the end and don't waste the money you've paid, which is exactly Dr Z's attitude. When I consulted with Dr Z, I took a 3D model of my skull with me and I also took a morph with me of what I wanted the end result to look like. After the surgery, the first thing I asked him was did you manage to get it like the morph and he said he did because he adjusts the bone and then fix's it with one screw during surgery to evaluate how the soft tissue looks on that movement, then will keep doing that until the soft tissue looks right to what you want. He said a lot of people think about bone movement in mm's thinking that's all it is, but the most important thing is how the soft tissue sits on top of the bone

[mike888miller]

vic -

i love what you did with the 3d model, and fully agree with your positive assessment of dr z. i think that was a great why to facilitate the discussion with him, as in Addition to being be fantastic surgeon he is also a trained Artist. i may still steal that idea.


pp -

of course i agree with you, the only Problem is this - i know that the docs that are happy to engage (ie the top US guys) will Charge 2-4x as much for my bimax. there are some guys in the german speaking countries that have been doing bimax for 20 years, and that have great repulations. some of them are even starting to use arneets softward.

i am trying to avoid paying 25k us for that peace of mid

and since my case is pretty straight Forward ie

1 horizontal movement of man and max by 10mm (sounds like a lot but my scull is about one Standard Deviation bigger than average),

2 bite is alraedy class one, no ortho work pre surgery needed ("surgery frist")

3 no Rotation as oc plane is horizontal

4 optional gne / chin wing

http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=6074.0