Modified Lefort 3 Cut by Sinn

[ODog]

I think you're making a terrible mistake either way. But I will point out that I have seen multiple horror stories and cases of unethical practice from Eppley. Your money your face though. Knock yourself out

Yeah I really don’t see the indication for wanting this surgery and Im not saying that because I’m overly conservative or downplaying the importance of aesthetics or something. You just literally don’t have recessed orbital rims or midface. Even if you had slightly recessed orbital rims but still within the normal range I would understand your desire for the surgery, even though others might still deem it crazy.

But honestly good luck and let us know how it goes I’m curious to see the change !!!

[micjawsurgery]

Yeah I guess my midface recession isn't so bad. I want midface advancement because my upper jaw is very forward compared to my midface. I attached a lateral ceph to show. I get these tear troughs (not even sure i'd call them that exactly, blepharoplasty would not work though, my eyes are also shallow set since im asian which exaggerates it) under my eyes in some lighting which really bothers me. So I am getting something done for sure.

Part of me is curious about what advancing the midface would do to someone who is average. It's probably best for myself that I let others figure that out but I haven't ruled that out completely. I notice "greyandblue" was scheduled for a lefort 3 but ended up not updating in 2017 - did anyone see his results?

I will be sure to update my result since we are all curious about aesthetics

[Lefortitude]

I see a straight profile, good symmetry, high hyoid bone.  You're aesthetically pretty average or above.  If you're really looking for god tier aesthetics i think youre on the right track with this midface thing.

[PloskoPlus]

I see a straight profile, good symmetry, high hyoid bone.  You're aesthetically pretty average or above.  If you're really looking for god tier aesthetics i think youre on the right track with this midface thing.

Plenty of handsome men with flat midfaces. It's the eyes and spacing of features. Other things only come into it when they are so bad they divert attention from the eyes.

[Post bimax]

Plenty of handsome men with flat midfaces. It's the eyes and spacing of features. Other things only come into it when they are so bad they divert attention from the eyes.

This +100.  Kavan always makes the point of guys wanting the "parts" of the mm aesthetic without realizing the important of mm eyes (impossible to achieve via surgery) and facial gestalt.  Honestly nobody gives a f**k about a couple milimeters of midface flatness unless you are actually deformed.  I think the only osteotomy that can reliably make 'normal' range men more attractive (besides a properly done and stable bimax) is a sliding genioplasty in the case of a weak chin.

[kavan]

This +100.  Kavan always makes the point of guys wanting the "parts" of the mm aesthetic without realizing the important of mm eyes (impossible to achieve via surgery) and facial gestalt.  Honestly nobody gives a f**k about a couple milimeters of midface flatness unless you are actually deformed.  I think the only osteotomy that can reliably make 'normal' range men more attractive (besides a properly done and stable bimax) is a sliding genioplasty in the case of a weak chin.

Indeed. The MM aesthetic, you can see when you block out EVERYTHING ELSE to the face EXCEPT the EYES.  It's the EYES. They are the 'art' and the rest of the structure around them, including but not not limited to the orbital rim/cheek complex, jaw and forehead is the FRAME. So, you have all these guys going after the MM aesthetic. Ya, they can get the FRAME. But what are they framing? Their EYES. So, effectively with this they are 'showcasing' something that best NOT be showcased. Very FEW people have the type of EYES MMs have. You can't 'buy' them with PS or bone altering procedures.

Also, Leonardo DaVinci has said (forgot the name of book but I read it years back) that a hollowed out area or concave area--let's relate that to an UNPROJECTED upper midface area--catches MORE light than does a convex area. Basically when the area can be 'bathed' in light there is an aesthetic perk to that.,  So, artistically/aesthetically, there is really NO NEED for a MALE to turn that area into a CONVEXITY. The aesthetic need for that is only IF the eyes are PROMINENT like as in 'bug eye'.

People get that cuz 'Earl got it'. But Earl was the IDEAL candidate for it because he had the bug eyes and was adverse to implants.

[kavan]

Plenty of handsome men with flat midfaces. It's the eyes and spacing of features. Other things only come into it when they are so bad they divert attention from the eyes.

Agree. Also, it is common and acceptable for Asian men to have some flatness to the lower orbital rim/cheek area. Since this surgery is really aimed at people with BUG EYES (prominent eye), his eyes could look relatively smaller with it. Docs WONT tell him that though. They will just listen and note THE the patient WANTS more advancement below the eye and also note; 'ya, I can accommodate that request' (whether it be bone cuts or implants). The NEW TREND is to give a patient WHAT they ASK FOR and the docs LOVE IT when they ask for the bone structure of MMs because it allows them to WITHHOLD that what makes an MM an MM is the EYE AREA that NO ps or cranio guy can replicate.

[micjawsurgery]

My eye area isn’t the mm hunter  look but I am quite happy with it. Im not really after the model look. Really I’m just looking for under eye support and to fix my hollowing. Here’s a picture that kinda shows that

But I will take your advice. May also consider fillers and just get a bridge rhino which I need. Was considering the lefort first because Sinn’s getting old

[PloskoPlus]

You don't have big eyes.  You don't have a narrow face.  Your eyes may look really small afterwards with no way of reversing the surgery.  If you're hellbent on it, consider Wolford.  He does it all through mouth.  I don't think he goes as far laterally, but you don't need that anyway.

[Post bimax]

Your eyes are not prominent relative to your face and may actually look recessed after a MLF3. You're probably going to end up 'fixing' one problem (which isn't even really a problem) while creating a much worse and irreversible other problem.

[kavan]

My eye area isn’t the mm hunter  look but I am quite happy with it. Im not really after the model look. Really I’m just looking for under eye support and to fix my hollowing. Here’s a picture that kinda shows that

But I will take your advice. May also consider fillers and just get a bridge rhino which I need. Was considering the lefort first because Sinn’s getting old

That's the point. Your EYES are GOOD. Canthal tilt is great. They are not prominent as in you don't have 'BUG EYES'. It looks to be normative Asian bone structure.

With the custom implants, those go with a MIDFACE LIFT and quite often they might need outside access to assist placing the implants for which that access involves an incision next to (your nice UPWARD TILTED) lateral canthal area and that incision is a DOWNWARD DIAGONAL. That type of cut can also be used if no implants but just access to the bone area they wish to pronounce out.

Now IF that scar does not heal perfectly flat and perfectly 'invisible'--and keep in mind that part of how a scar heals has to do with the patient as some have more KELOID issues than others--what you will have beside your nice UPWARD TILTED canthal angle is a DOWNWARD TILTED incision line. From an artistic point of view, a downward tilted diagonal right next to a preferred upward tilted diagonal 'visually INTERFERES' with total appreciation of the nice upward tilted diagonal.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's a great surgery and I recognize that the docs who can pull it off whether it be the custom implant docs who will do it or Sinn who will do with just the bone cuts. But some of the TRADE-OFFS associated with it like that downward tilted diagonal scar right beside an upward tilted lateral canthus! is MORE ACCEPTABLE for someone who NEEDS that kind of surgery to address the aesthetic PROBLEM of 'BUG EYE' than it is for a case like yours.

What the docs are tuning in on, in your case, when they say you are a good candidate for this is that they CAN address your complaint of 'flatness' to the area and on the grounds that you WANT more outward projection. They have NOT confirmed possibility of your eyes looking relatively smaller or more recessed to you, possibility of your NOT liking a downward diagonal scar next to your upward diagonal canthus. Why? Because you didn't present to them with that concern. You presented to them as someone who WANTED the surgery because you WANTED more projection and not as someone who 'needed' it to address what it BEST corrects (prominent eye) where the trade-offs are acceptable when one has the problem it's aimed at addressing.

So, upshot of all this is that you CAN have the surgery on GROUNDS that you WANT it. Whether you will LIKE the outcome or 'look' of it (which WILL change how your eyes--that you LIKE--will look to you) will just be a 'wait and see' deal after it's all done.

[ODog]

You don't have big eyes.  You don't have a narrow face.  Your eyes may look really small afterwards with no way of reversing the surgery.  If you're hellbent on it, consider Wolford.  He does it all through mouth.  I don't think he goes as far laterally, but you don't need that anyway.

Wolford does this? Wow that’s good to know.

[ODog]

Does one need to have a wide jaw in order to maintain harmony with the wider midface that results from this procedure? So it wouldn’t be a good idea to do this if you have high angles/ steep mandible plane? Or is he bulk of the advancement forward and thus would only have a minimal effect on making the lower third seem narrower by comparison? How was Earl’s lower jaw structured?

[Lazlo]

Does one need to have a wide jaw in order to maintain harmony with the wider midface that results from this procedure? So it wouldn’t be a good idea to do this if you have high angles/ steep mandible plane? Or is he bulk of the advancement forward and thus would only have a minimal effect on making the lower third seem narrower by comparison? How was Earl’s lower jaw structured?

Earl seemed to have a very good loser jaw from a BSSO procedure, very straight. I don't think you necessarily need a wider jaw for a wider midface, your jaw can taper down with a strong chin and still look good.

Did you send me a message that you had an open bite on one side? Small discrepancies can be fixed with orthodontics afterward. The bite isn't always perfect after jaw surgery hence the need for several months more of orthodontics and elastics etc. My bite is okay, but certainly not perfect. I wouldn't stress about it AT ALL.

[ODog]

Earl seemed to have a very good loser jaw from a BSSO procedure, very straight. I don't think you necessarily need a wider jaw for a wider midface, your jaw can taper down with a strong chin and still look good.

Did you send me a message that you had an open bite on one side? Small discrepancies can be fixed with orthodontics afterward. The bite isn't always perfect after jaw surgery hence the need for several months more of orthodontics and elastics etc. My bite is okay, but certainly not perfect. I wouldn't stress about it AT ALL.

Ah yeah that makes sense. I think I read somewhere Sinn told McJaw he was an ideal candidate because his jaw was wide, so it might play some role.

Thanks dude you’re the best.