why do people on here actively shill Dr. Z ?

[confusor]

I researched a bit and a bunch of old members like lefort 3000 or baldguy83 complained about having asymmetry after a chin wing performed by Dr. Z
Their chins were crooked and they had to get a genio to fix it? i also partially read the thread where stupidjaws(the hailed member who actively shilled Dr. Z) got exposed for shilling docs.

[Lefortitude]

I flew over the Atlantic to consult with him. He's a very knowledgeable and thorough surgeon.  His prices are VERY reasonable and they take GREAT care of you at the Havelklinik.  The chin wing in itself has a lot of issues. I also went to pyramid in Zurich while I was in Europe to meet with the developers of the chin wing, and they showed me results in the office that were way worse than anything I had seen out of Dr. Z.

Theres also a german version of the jawsurgeryforum (name of which escapes me) which had a number of happy patients of Dr. Z.

I spoke to stupidjaws before his scandal and he mentioned he also had a lot of asymmetry after his first chin wing. Once he had his second he came out looking really good. 

If you want a chin wing, not sure you have any better option.

[confusor]

I flew over the Atlantic to consult with him. He's a very knowledgeable and thorough surgeon.  His prices are VERY reasonable and they take GREAT care of you at the Havelklinik.  The chin wing in itself has a lot of issues. I also went to pyramid in Zurich while I was in Europe to meet with the developers of the chin wing, and they showed me results in the office that were way worse than anything I had seen out of Dr. Z.

Theres also a german version of the jawsurgeryforum (name of which escapes me) which had a number of happy patients of Dr. Z.

I spoke to stupidjaws before his scandal and he mentioned he also had a lot of asymmetry after his first chin wing. Once he had his second he came out looking really good. 

If you want a chin wing, not sure you have any better option.

Can you explain to me how his 2nd chin wing miraculously made him symmetric while the first one didn’t? What was done differently? I honestly doubt anything stupidjaws has posted. Active shilling is what kills a forum and creates distrust among members.

[PloskoPlus]

Nobody shills anyone here. It's now well known that both ZO and chin wings are a complete crapshoot.

[ben from UK]

I don't think he has been shilled. Maybe SJ had good results with cw, and then you have people praising Z. because of that. That was a long time ago. Somebody I spoke through pm had bad results with Z. Actually, most doctors have bad or mediocre results, I think. It's just difficult to make someone better looking through ps.

[Lestat]

It's now well known that both ZO and chin wings are a complete crapshoot.

Can you elaborate please?

[Lestat]

I also went to pyramid in Zurich while I was in Europe to meet with the developers of the chin wing, and they showed me results in the office that were way worse than anything I had seen out of Dr. Z.

I am curious if the results Dr. Z showed you look about the same as the results on his website?!

https://gesichtschirurgie-berlin.com/patientenbeispiele/

[PloskoPlus]

Can you elaborate please?

You've been on this board long enough to know. 

Half the time ZO produces no change in appearance at all.  It cannot produce anterior or superior projection, only lateral. It's an OK procedure for those with really narrow faces, but that's about it.

Almost every CW post mentions asymmetry and resorption.  If the technique's "inventor" brags about how he has a special bone graft harvesting technique, so you can do the chin wing as many times as you want, you have to wonder.  To me it's best for fixing pre-existing asymmetries (whether natural or caused by a bad orthognathic surgery).  IOW, when your starting point is bad, any improvement is good.

[Lestat]

You've been on this board long enough to know. 

Yes I know the stories and of course, osteotomies aren't perfect. But the only alternative to osteotomies are implants. So please tell me: Would you recommend that? Or maybe fat? Or something else i have never heard of?
Doing nothing is not an option.

[confusor]

You've been on this board long enough to know. 

Half the time ZO produces no change in appearance at all.  It cannot produce anterior or superior projection, only lateral. It's an OK procedure for those with really narrow faces, but that's about it.

Almost every CW post mentions asymmetry and resorption.  If the technique's "inventor" brags about how he has a special bone graft harvesting technique, so you can do the chin wing as many times as you want, you have to wonder.  To me it's best for fixing pre-existing asymmetries (whether natural or caused by a bad orthognathic surgery).  IOW, when your starting point is bad, any improvement is good.

Elaborate on resorption
I have not read that happening to anyone as of yet

[ben from UK]

I don't think anyone knows precisely about resorption, infection rates etc. Surgeons often bring up way more positive percentages and there's not alot of research. You can't be a businessman and trie to make money and be an objective researcher as well.

[ben from UK]

Also, from what i have seen, the SJ results don't look like cw results. I have never seen those supersharp angles with cw results. I have seen filler results with those sharp angles, yes, but no implant results or cw results that gave those sharp angles. If this is true and the pics that were posted by people that did fillers are indeed true pics, then fillers might be a temporary solution to create the sharpness. One reason may be that fillers only target the areas that need to be targeted: the lower border of the jaw. This is actually 9 out of 10 times the only place where augmentation is needed. Another reason might be that angularity has to do with soft tissue as well as bone. But i don't know enough about it to be certain about it. 

[confusor]

Also, from what i have seen, the SJ results don't look like cw results. I have never seen those supersharp angles with cw results. I have seen filler results with those sharp angles, yes, but no implant results or cw results that gave those sharp angles. If this is true and the pics that were posted by people that did fillers are indeed true pics, then fillers might be a temporary solution to create the sharpness. One reason may be that fillers only target the areas that need to be targeted: the lower border of the jaw. This is actually 9 out of 10 times the only place where augmentation is needed. Another reason might be that angularity has to do with soft tissue as well as bone. But i don't know enough about it to be certain about it.

can you post his results pics ITT? I can't find them tbh.

[Lefortitude]

I am curious if the results Dr. Z showed you look about the same as the results on his website?!

https://gesichtschirurgie-berlin.com/patientenbeispiele/

I dont recall, that was a few years ago. There was an outstanding one on a 16 year old male patient which dosnt appear on the website, probably because he was a minor? not sure.

Those results on his website are quite good.