Author Topic: What procedures do I need in order to fix a recessed face? (photos & x-ray!)  (Read 2758 times)

Charlie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
Hi All!

I was wondering what you think can be done to enhance & improve the aesthetics of my face, in particularly my jawline, chin & cheekbones.

I've provided a few photos of my face in different angles, as well as a 3-D representation of an of x-ray of my lower and mid-face below:

https://imgur.com/a/YMJNsfR

Basically I've always had an open mouth posture, and been a mouth breather, which I believe has led me to developing a recessed face.

My chin is weak, and my jawline is non existent, almost melting into my neck. Along with that my cheekbones also have no anterior projection.

So all in all I'm looking to find out which procedures would best help me fix the above!

I'm massively interested in doing this for aesthtic reasons, but I also suffer with sleep apnea, which again I feel is linked into having my recessed face impeding my airways in some way.

Thanks in advance for any help!

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 426
Most likely bimax with CCW rotation via posterior downgraft. Cheek and/or orbital rim area possible to do at same time depending on whether surgeon does that. Can also be done later down the line in a separate surgery.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Charlie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
Bump

GJ

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1493
  • Karma: 215
I think a linear movement might look better than CCW. Ramus doesn't look particularly steep. Linear movement of both jaws + a fairly aggressive genio makes sense. You actually appear to have an underbite despite recession.
Millimeters are miles on the face.

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 426
I think a linear movement might look better than CCW. Ramus doesn't look particularly steep. Linear movement of both jaws + a fairly aggressive genio makes sense. You actually appear to have an underbite despite recession.

Ya, he could get linear advancement, especially for SLEEP APNEA and if his bite is OK that is what they would want to do. But as you know, with the linear advancement, in order to get the lower jaw advanced out a lot, the maxilla needs to be advanced by same 'A LOT' amount and then come the complaints that they don't like the 'look' even when they can breath much better. Add; 'And now my cheek area really looks more recessed' after the maxillary advancement or Add; 'The doctor put in cheek implants  (to compensate for the cheek area looking more recessed by relative comparison WITH the maxillary advancement) and they don't like them.

So, yes. He could get linear advancement. But if aesthetics are his main concern, he should also look into CCW which would allow for more lower jaw advancement and less maxillary advancement. I agree that it would rotate his jaw upward more and give him a lower angle 'slope' (MPA) than he already has . That would be a trade off with it (short looking jaw). But it's that trade-off vs the trade off the excess maxillary advancement needed in APNEA cases in order for the lower jaw to get the big advancement.  However, the short jaw or short chin look from CCW (posterior downgraft) in a LOW ANGLE patient (low MPA) often can be offset by a diagonally downward genio (down and out) and not the sliding genio providing the BSSO advancement takes care of opening the airway enough.

So, I guess he will need to consider the possible aesthetic trade offs of both/either. Both will yield better aesthetics in some way. But neither will be a perfect aesthetic solution.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

GJ

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1493
  • Karma: 215
My fear with CCW is his lower third already looks short, and it might result in that looking shorter. So if CCW, maybe vertical genio. Or go linear and get a larger genio to get the lower out. I'd like to see both plans put together by a surgeon to compare. To me he looks on the fence where either could work.
Millimeters are miles on the face.

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 426
My fear with CCW is his lower third already looks short, and it might result in that looking shorter. So if CCW, maybe vertical genio. Or go linear and get a larger genio to get the lower out. I'd like to see both plans put together by a surgeon to compare. To me he looks on the fence where either could work.

Well, I explained that in my prior post and also he needed to choose between possible trade offs of either.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

GJ

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1493
  • Karma: 215
Yeah. Get several plans, OP.
Then bring them back.
Millimeters are miles on the face.

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 426
OP.  Are you overweight?
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Charlie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
OP.  Are you overweight?

Hi Kavan, thanks for the detailed responses above.

I'm not overweight as such, I'm 5ft 11" and weigh 168lbs, however from the neck up I definitely look it!

I think this is due to a bit of genetic disposition to submental fullness as well as my recessed lower face causing fat to "pool" under my jaw and chin.

Would you agree that could be the case?

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 426
Re: What procedures do I need in order to fix a recessed face? (photos & x-ray!)
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2020, 09:13:57 AM »
Hi Kavan, thanks for the detailed responses above.

I'm not overweight as such, I'm 5ft 11" and weigh 168lbs, however from the neck up I definitely look it!

I think this is due to a bit of genetic disposition to submental fullness as well as my recessed lower face causing fat to "pool" under my jaw and chin.

Would you agree that could be the case?

For starters, it was that chin in a cup pose (head tilted up and back in CCW direction) that was throwing us off. I can agree to a genetic disposition for submental fullness but can't confirm if it's a backward's jaw to jaw relationship that is causing that. The chin in a cup photo isn't a ceph were the landmarks can be seen (by me) and it's the very thing that threw us a curve ball as to which type of bimax to get.

It was the fatty neck that gave the illusion of the recessed jaws. The chin in a CUP bone photo was overly rotated head position for the bone relationships (head pose tipped backwards) which initially gave us both impression of low mandibular plane angle (because the head was rotated in CCW direction with chin in cup pose). But the more I inspected that bone photo (which was not a ceph and did not have all the landmarks in it to inspect) the less I saw any significant bimax recession. Then I slapped myself on the head and realized it was the fat neck giving impression of the recession and crossed referenced that with doing what i did in the morph.

Fat neck can kick up apnea (not to mention throwing GJ and me for a loop as to 'bone recession'!) because it cramps down on airway when sleeping. So, fat loss is the first thing to try. I knew someone who got the gastric lap band to lose weight which was what she got for the sleep apnea.

So, YES. Most of your problem is the fat neck which is obliterating your bone structure relationship. You might also have extra fat on your face obliterating the cheek bone structure. That resolves to fat loss via diet and exercise intense regime FIRST. Then fat to the neck and under chin (anterior neck triangle) in addition to DEEP MUSCLE relationships would most likely resolve to plastic surgery.

WHAT was the head tilted up in a CUP pose for? Was it to look at your airway when it wasn't cramped down by the neck fat or was it for something else?

ETA: photo included with this post
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Charlie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
Hi again Kavan!

From memory I think you're right, the tilted pose was to free up my airway so to speak!

The problem I have is that I've lost as much weight as I reasonably can but the fat neck isn't reducing at all (I've weighed heavier in the past and lost around 40lbs over the last couple of years and it's remained).

It's this that led me to think it must a recessed jaw etc causing it, but I'm now certain it's just more a genetic thing.

In this case would something such as a chin implant or sliding genio alongside liposuction of the neck help me would you say?

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 426
Hi again Kavan!

From memory I think you're right, the tilted pose was to free up my airway so to speak!

The problem I have is that I've lost as much weight as I reasonably can but the fat neck isn't reducing at all (I've weighed heavier in the past and lost around 40lbs over the last couple of years and it's remained).

It's this that led me to think it must a recessed jaw etc causing it, but I'm now certain it's just more a genetic thing.

In this case would something such as a chin implant or sliding genio alongside liposuction of the neck help me would you say?

AHA. So I guessed right as to what that chin in a cup pose was for and in the absence of any prior familiarity with seeing something like that on this board before or KNOWING prior what it was for. I guessed it right because there was something about about the 'back and forth' with GJ about CCW vs linear advancement that allowed me to question myself as in: 'How could Kavan POSSIBLY be wrong about something?' Well, the answer to that usually resolves to being THROWN FOR A LOOP.

My not getting it right in the first place usually resolves to absence of information of some kind. Often by an ASSERTION the OP makes within their question. For example, the 'chin in cup' scan,in absence of info that a full ceph X ray would yield, and NO MENTION from you as to what it was actually for. Also the assertion from you, WITHIN YOUR QUESTION, that your face was recessed in addition to your assertion the apnea was due to face recession.

So, you got both GJ and me to accept apriori your assertion of recessed face and then we are going back and forth as to the pros and cons of linear advancement vs. CCW on the basis of a LOW MPA which at first glance is low on the chin in cup scan.

That is exactly happened with your presentation. I mean IF you had told us IN THE FIRST PLACE that the chin in a cup pose was to free up your air way SO they could actually LOOK at it, I would have had the CLUE, right then and there that the most likely reason for that to be done would have something to do with it being 'squeezed on' in a normal head position usually used in a ceph for bimax evaluation. OK.

Anyway, your case would most likely resolves to a NECK EXPERT, a plastic surgeon conversant in correcting all the DEEP structures of the anterior triangle of the neck which include MORE structures than just the superficial fat pad and superficial platysma muscle. You could have fat very DEEP to the superficial fat pad in addition to multiple other anatomical structures DEEP to the neck that need to be altered or reconstructed to correct the salient AESTHETIC problem; OBTUSE cervicomental angle, and/or 'difficult neck' which is something in the venue of plastic surgeons very conversant in altering those structures. So there is probably MUCH more going on under chin/neck than would be corrected via a superficial fat pad being lipoed out and a chin implant being put in.

However, most of my time and focus here has been redirected into cross referencing whether or not you REALLY had a recessed FACE. So you need to establish/confirm that your airway, itself is large enough and the MEDICAL matter at hand is the excess neck tissue 'squeezing' on it in neutral/normal head posture and especially when sleeping and not one where the airway is actually small. You did not convey whether or not the MEDICAL findings of that confirmed small airway or impinged on airway.

On the basis of SALIENT aesthetic problem and the the morph I did prior, I put in where a TVL would be found (true vertical line) and found you basically had the right jaw to jaw line up with reference to it. No significant chin recession was found. However, you could get chin advancement to be closer to the drop down line but still somewhat behind it (most certainly not beyond it). So, when I alter the FAT NECK issue, there is no salient facial recession there for me to further suggest or imply to suggest that bimax advancement would be the 'solution' to your key aesthetic problem. Hence, more likely than not, your aesthetic issue is in the venue of a plastic surgeon conversant in correcting all the very DEEP structures UNDER the chin and neck. OBTUSE cervicomental angle, 'difficult neck'.

Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Charlie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
Just an update I've attached a new Lateral Ceph., would you say that shows a recessed jaw or a narrow / restricted airway?

aestheticseeker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: -2
your bite looks to be edge to edge?