JOE ROGAN JAMES NESTOR THE HORRORS OF EXTRACTION ORTHODONTICS

[Dutcherhatcher]

It might be best for your case for the reasons we discuss above. I can't remember your specific case/records, if you posted them.
Why would you put implants in, though? That would defeat the point of creating space (for jaw advancement) via the extractions.

I had molars extracted. We discussed it a bit a year ago I think. I assume that creating the needed overjet will be before the space left by the molars is filled. So dental implants will make sure to stop the crowing of the teeth at the needed point. I might be mistaken in my understanding.

[thedude]

I also just want to mention that a palate expansion, even surgerical assisted, only temporarily improves nose breathing. That was my experience and also can be read in different papers.

Do you know why? I'd be curious to see the papers you are referring to. I'm thinking of getting my palate expended specifically to improve nasal breathing. The results have looked pretty decent: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318214932_Distraction_Osteogenesis_Maxillary_Expansion_DOME_for_Adult_Obstructive_Sleep_Apnea_Patients_with_High_Arched_Palate

[Gadwins]

Do you know why? I'd be curious to see the papers you are referring to. I'm thinking of getting my palate expended specifically to improve nasal breathing. The results have looked pretty decent: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318214932_Distraction_Osteogenesis_Maxillary_Expansion_DOME_for_Adult_Obstructive_Sleep_Apnea_Patients_with_High_Arched_Palate

Honestly I can't find it. Also I don't have enough knowledge to tell more about it. I don't know if nasal breathing resistance and sleep apnea have something in common. My experience was about how well you get air through nose, so if you have the feeling that there is some resistance.

[thedude]

We still have 50% of kids these days getting braces though. Just braces really mess up your face. I can't get over how much better even models like Emma Watson and Cindy Crawford looked before they had braces (they were young but you can tell how much hotter they would have been without the mashed face). Someone really needs to get the word out about this nonsense. Happy to see it at least mentioned on the JR show.

[Post bimax]

We still have 50% of kids these days getting braces though. Just braces really mess up your face. I can't get over how much better even models like Emma Watson and Cindy Crawford looked before they had braces (they were young but you can tell how much hotter they would have been without the mashed face). Someone really needs to get the word out about this nonsense. Happy to see it at least mentioned on the JR show.

Emma Watson is one of the most cited 'glow ups' of all time.  I'm not sure where you're getting the idea she would've been hotter without braces, or how you could even judge that given the age she was in braces.

[thedude]

Emma Watson is one of the most cited 'glow ups' of all time.  I'm not sure where you're getting the idea she would've been hotter without braces, or how you could even judge that given the age she was in braces.

Take a look at those pictures and you can see how much better looking she was when she was younger. Look how her face is pushed in like somebody stepped on it after she has had braces.

People tend to confuse sexual maturity with attractiveness. You can usually tell how attractive someone is by the time they are 10 years old. Probably even younger. That's why all those Disney stars are recruited so young and all end up being famous. You can tell who is going to be hot when they are older. The average person just doesn't know what to look for if they're not sexually attracted to the individual.

I think that is why orthodontists get away with what they do actually. Their average patients come in at 12 years old and leave at 15 years old. The 12 year old was usually a lot better looking, but once you turn 15 you're sexually mature and and that gets people excited all on their own. Average adult logic is wow I just realized I'd have sex with you it must be because you're teeth are straight. No it's because you grew up the teeth have nothing to do with it but it masks the fact that you got uglier. If they actually looked closely at the before face they would see it's more classically beautiful.

I don't think Emma Watson would have been famous if she weren't recruited young. She is pretty average looking with the brace face. She got recognized young for being super pretty, got uglier with braces, but was already in the industry and "good enough" to make it work. You only need to have above average looks to be famous and the rest is intelligence.

I mean I just took another look at that before picture and her face is just perfect. Her teeth are great. A perfect fit for her face. Whoever decided to do that to her ought to be put in jail because she would have to have been one of the prettiest girls ever. It makes me so sad.

[Post bimax]

Personally I'm not seeing an issue or her being less attractive in the 'after' picture.  Maybe that's just me.

Puberty affects people in all kinds of ways.  Sometimes previously harmonious features get distorted, and sometimes people blossom.  Maybe orthodontics have an impact in some cases, but I'm not seeing it here.

[Lazlo]

Take a look at those pictures and you can see how much better looking she was when she was younger. Look how her face is pushed in like somebody stepped on it after she has had braces.

People tend to confuse sexual maturity with attractiveness. You can usually tell how attractive someone is by the time they are 10 years old. Probably even younger. That's why all those Disney stars are recruited so young and all end up being famous. You can tell who is going to be hot when they are older. The average person just doesn't know what to look for if they're not sexually attracted to the individual.

I think that is why orthodontists get away with what they do actually. Their average patients come in at 12 years old and leave at 15 years old. The 12 year old was usually a lot better looking, but once you turn 15 you're sexually mature and and that gets people excited all on their own. Average adult logic is wow I just realized I'd have sex with you it must be because you're teeth are straight. No it's because you grew up the teeth have nothing to do with it but it masks the fact that you got uglier. If they actually looked closely at the before face they would see it's more classically beautiful.

I don't think Emma Watson would have been famous if she weren't recruited young. She is pretty average looking with the brace face. She got recognized young for being super pretty, got uglier with braces, but was already in the industry and "good enough" to make it work. You only need to have above average looks to be famous and the rest is intelligence.

I mean I just took another look at that before picture and her face is just perfect. Her teeth are great. A perfect fit for her face. Whoever decided to do that to her ought to be put in jail because she would have to have been one of the prettiest girls ever. It makes me so sad.

you're absolutely right. orthos ruin faces with extractions.

[Lefortitude]

So what is considered responsible and "good" ortho? 

We all agree extractions are bad

but what about braces?

Invisalign?

Elastics?