Author Topic: Why did this result come out this way?  (Read 2758 times)

ruby

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Why did this result come out this way?
« on: June 08, 2022, 03:53:43 PM »
Hi -

I am seriously considering jaw surgery for functional and aesthetic reasons. I really don't want to become an expert on facial aesthetics but I'm nervous about the outcome and pretty disappointed by the eye of some top surgeons I've consulted with so I'm doing some diligence before making a final decision.

I saw this result from Steinbacher and it looks so off to me. I think she looks better before than after - after her profile is flat and long. To show what I mean, I morphed the before to what I think would be a better result (Not perfect I did it quickly but She still looks like herself and maintains some balance and femininity). Do people agree with me? Can anyone tell me or give a good guess as to why this result turned out the way it did? Would there have been a better approach? Thank you.

result:
https://www.dereksteinbacher.com/gallery/#ba-image-631

(In the morph I tried to only move jaws forward/down and upturn nose a bit. I also might have overdone it a bit but I'm just trying to demonstrate what I mean)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2022, 04:03:08 PM by ruby »

ArtVandelay

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2022, 09:22:51 PM »
There's bruisng under her left eye so it appears soon after surgery so it might just be swelling?

GJ

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2022, 07:11:56 AM »
If you think the after is "off", you really shouldn't consider jaw surgery. No offense meant. But you're in for a brutal mental run if you couldn't handle an excellent result. Most results are not that excellent.
Millimeters are miles on the face.

kavan

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2022, 11:46:51 AM »
There's bruisng under her left eye so it appears soon after surgery so it might just be swelling?

Bruising to the eye would be from a RHINOPLASTY.
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kavan

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2022, 11:51:24 AM »
If you think the after is "off", you really shouldn't consider jaw surgery. No offense meant. But you're in for a brutal mental run if you couldn't handle an excellent result. Most results are not that excellent.

LEGIT.
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ArtVandelay

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2022, 07:35:50 PM »
If you think the after is "off", you really shouldn't consider jaw surgery. No offense meant. But you're in for a brutal mental run if you couldn't handle an excellent result. Most results are not that excellent.

Spot on, ruby, Steinbacher is a top surgeon, his results are what's a realistic good outcome
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 08:16:59 PM by ArtVandelay »

varbrah

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2022, 10:49:15 PM »
Looks fine. Upper maxilla/zygos are a bit flat looking in comparison to the lower, but presumably will look better once swelling goes down.

TWGOAT

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2022, 08:11:22 PM »
In your morph the face is still too short, proportions look better in the real after

jawsurgery029184

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2022, 11:49:08 AM »
Even though everyone else seems to think that the after is better than the before — I have to say I actually agree with you that the first is more attractive. I am strongly advising you to NOT get jaw surgery because it sounds like you and I are alike, and I don’t want you to regret your surgery the way I regret mine.

In the before picture, even if the bone development is not the most forward, the curvature from the cheekbone to the rest of the cheek is smooth and the cheekbones appear at the highest point. It is still a feminine look, just not the super straight forward growth profile most people, especially in the West, prefer.

The after might look better at a superficial glance. But after observing it more closely, you can see that in the after, the upper cheek volume is (or at least appears) decreased. Most importantly, there is that ‘break’ in the area from the cheekbones to the rest of the cheek (like a small indentation that old people have when their skin starts to sag). This indentation area can smoothen after swelling goes down if you are someone with high cheekbones to begin with. However, if you have low cheekbones, this will WORSEN when swelling goes down because the swelling around the cheekbones will go down BUT the skin beneath the cheekbones will not (at least not enough to not make it look indented and droopy). And trust me, under natural, non-artificial lighting, you will look so incredibly old for your age. And it’s not just the 3/4 profile view that looks bad, it’s obvious front on too.

If you asked me before I got my surgery which one looks better, like everyone else, I would say the after picture looks better. But that would be because I did not know how to accurately access things photo vs real-life. And in real life, a lot of people would want a slightly recessed but feminine, smooth-skinned woman over a more straight-profile woman who has drooping, sagging cheeks and a manly lower face. A good looking front face and 3/4th profile is all that matters. Who cares if you have a slightly more ideal side profile if you are going to have an uglier 3/4 and front face?

This also depends a lot on your own skin and facial features. If you are Asian, this result will look terrible on you compared to a non-Asian person because if you are Asian, you probably have a flatter face, and getting this maxillary advancement will cause you to basically not have cheekbones after this surgery and look super pudgy. A non-Asian person might have more bone in their face so that they can look fine or even more  proportioned after this surgery.

I really think people need to know that makeup and lighting in photos can sway your judgements on the outcomes of the surgery. In real life, there can be severe aesthetic downsides EVEN with a result  that looks good in photos. In the Facebook Jaw Surgery groups, why do the before photos often have no filters but the after photos have a filter or heavy makeup applied on them? Let me tell you why: the skin has this skin-break issue and the filter hides it.

I heavily agree with others, you should 100% reconsider this surgery. At the very least, Western surgeons do not have the same aesthetic as you do and you should not go to them.

GJ

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2022, 05:45:16 PM »
There's no way the before is objectively better from the side. Would have to see the front to truly say. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder yada yada, but objectively, like in terms of which of these two would be on say a Greek sculpture, it's clearly the after.
Millimeters are miles on the face.

ruby

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2022, 02:46:03 PM »
Interesting. Thanks for the responses.

There's a thread on this site that talks about how slightly recessed jaws look more youthful and feminine and so can work better on women, which GJ agreed with. https://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php/topic,7398.msg65310.html#msg65310

Longer, flatter faces look more masculine/older to me. I definitely like a lot of the results I see but I so see some from top surgeons correcting class II on women that to me would look better with the lower jaw not advanced quite so much to retain some femininity (as the thread mentions). Sometimes I see women on reddit that go from looking like a slightly off 20 y/o to a 35 y/o. Correcting class III, on the other hand, usually makes them look cuter to me because the upper jaw is more forward relative to lower jaw.

I should probably make a post with my pictures and surgical plans from consults but I've been nervous to. I am a woman with recessed jaws and an already kinda long face so that's why I'm especially sensitive to seeing women get longer faces and bigger chins from correcting class II.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2022, 03:28:08 PM by ruby »

ruby

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2022, 03:03:17 PM »
Even though everyone else seems to think that the after is better than the before — I have to say I actually agree with you that the first is more attractive. I am strongly advising you to NOT get jaw surgery because it sounds like you and I are alike, and I don’t want you to regret your surgery the way I regret mine. 

I'm glad someone gets what I'm trying to say - I'm not saying the before looks great but i don't think the after is what she would have looked like had her jaws developed more normally.

I'm sorry you ended up regretting your surgery.  I have not finalized plans to get surgery, but I think I still need to strongly consider it.  I had extractions as a kid and was pretty aggressively compensated and I would like to correct breathing/ posture/sleeping issues sooner rather than later. The overall recession also caused aesthetic problems for me and if possible I'd like to maximize my aesthetic outcome, of course.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2022, 03:24:48 PM by ruby »

GJ

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2022, 03:16:19 PM »
Interesting. Thanks for the responses.

There's a thread on this site that talks about how slightly recessed jaws look more youthful and feminine and so can work better on women, which GJ agreed with. https://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php/topic,7398.msg65310.html#msg65310

I do agree with that, but it's a case by case thing, and this girl looks better after, objectively. Again, if you like her before, that's just a case of beauty being in the eye of the beholder. I find many girls with small, recessed jaws to be "cute"...this girl even qualifies, but she looks better after even still.
Millimeters are miles on the face.

varbrah

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2022, 11:51:08 PM »
The after looks ‘off’ because she has a vertically long nose and got dorsal reduction rhinoplasty.

All else equal, due to her nose length, achieving a straight nasal profile necessarily produces a shallower/flatter looking bridge.

This also throws off her naso-frontal angle, which now appears overly obtuse vs. what nature typically intends in a presumably caucasoid skull. As an inverse comparison on the extreme, it’d be similar to seeing a standard looking Japanese guy in all respects - except he has a projected, aquiline, Roman emperor’s nose.

In this case the advancement of the jaws is a contributing factor (jaw projection visually enhances the appearance of nasal deprojection/weakness), but the disharmony is being primarily driven by the aggressive nose job.

In terms of aesthetically optimal outcomes - If a straight bridge is an absolute must, a more moderated level of dorsal hump reduction would’ve been appropriate, with the difference made up by feasibly maxing out augmentation/reconstruction of the lower cartilaginous  septum with tissue grafts.

jawsurgery029184

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Re: Why did this result come out this way?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2022, 11:28:14 AM »
Late comment, but I agree. The nose appears nicer in the  varbrah’smorph.

I just want to again caution anyone with low cheekbones to really think carefully about jaw surgery. Especially maxilla advancement and impaction.

What a lot of people should know is that many photos are often taken not long after surgery. The swelling at 2-3 months or even 6 months can fill out the cheekbone area in a way that looks extremely attractive. However, for some (like me), after swelling subsided, your eye and cheekbone area volume will decrease back to what it used to be.

But guess what? There’s now more volume in the front of your face due to maxilla advancement and impaction. This tissue can sag after swelling is gone. Before, with recessed jaws, you might have looked feminine with youthful skin, even if you were never beautiful. Now after jaw surgery and impaction, you just may find that you look much older, and you are still not beautiful.

I have very similar complaints as Cmonster (from what I read on her blog anyways). She even had her surgery with Gunson. I read her blog and resonated so much with it. I hope she is doing better now.