Why does her chin surgery look so terrible?

[PloskoPlus]

Incidentally I think surgeons are sort of full of s**t. I showed Sinn a pic of Tilda Swinton as an extreme example of someone with great bone structure, and he said she's had surgery. He said that of Johnny Depp (he had buccal fat removal) and other pics so I'm starting to wonder about his eye, but he obviously doesn't watch movies or pays attention to actors cause I don't think any of those people had surgery. He thought Ed Harris had amazing bone structure, which I agree with so at least he has good taste.

What did he say Tilda Swinton had done? What about Depp?  Depp had a chubby face into his late 20s.

[Serra]

I think she looks great. Yeah she was naturally pretty before but she clearly wanted that sort of "high fashion"/tranny looks and she got it.

I gotta say her work is really f**king good. I'm usually an expert on this s**t but I actually can't f**king tell exactly how it was done but she's had cheekbone augmentation, chin augmentation, the buccal fat removal and some sort of dramatic weight loss OR skin tightening procedure. I'll tell you, her doctor was f**king on point.

If you saw this girl without seeing her before, you'd think she was gorgeous.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think she looks gorgeous. There are comments about her ruining her face with chin surgery all over the net. No female who identifies as a woman wants to look like a tranny...
I don't see any cheekbone augmentation on her. In fact, her face looks more flat to me now in that area, probably because of the relationship to the chin.

If you think she's had it done because her cheekbone sticks out more on 3/4 view, the exact same thing happened to me with SG/bsso. Remember my post (with pics)about my face looking gaunt, especially on one side? My cheekbone is sticking out and making the rest of my face look emaciated, and I can assure you, I have had no buccal fat removal, no skin tightening procedure, and I've even gained weight.

[girl]

There's also the issue of course that some people are really not good candidates for this surgery for a number of reasons. Irresponsible surgeons would still accept these patients for this surgery.

And what would those reasons be, exactly?

More than irresponsible, it is downright stupid for a maxillofacial surgeon to suggest and perform procedures on patients who - from an orthognathic point of view - are not good candidates for them. Especially with all the diagnostic tools at their disposal. Doing a SG on an overbite or open bite patient is only going to worsen their appearance and cause problems, including functional ones. Particularly, if a recessed lower jaw isn't corrected (i.e. rotated) in advance, pulling the chin out can result in a vertical rather than horizontal bone movement. In my case, this has lead to constant pain and some difficulty speaking.

Since there is very little in the way of academic literature on SGs, especially in comparison to other jaw surgeries, I think it's important to discuss the reasons behind unsuccessful or problematic SGs such as ours.   

"Most of the complaints" aren't gender specific either. Over the past 2-3 years, I've spoken to men and women who've had bad SGs, even if they've had good jaw surgeries at the same time. Almost all of them had nerve damage, pain/discomfort, mentalis muscle damage and soft tissue deformities. Many had undergone multiple revisions.

Had I seen this thread before my surgery, it would have helped me to realise that I was not a candidate for the procedure and that my doctor was only interested in making easy money.
 
If so many people are citing the same concerns - having been to completely different doctors, in different parts of the world - well, it seems to indicate that the procedure demands highly specialised skills and far more up-to-date techniques than are currently being procured by the average maxillofacial doctor and their 'bandwagon' plastic surgeon mates who think they can try their hand at anything they please.

[girl]

I respectfully disagree. I don't think she looks gorgeous. There are comments about her ruining her face with chin surgery all over the net. No female who identifies as a woman wants to look like a tranny...

Yeah. Many transgender women don't want to look like transgender women either. It's an embarrassing outcome to say the least.

[needadvancement]

And what would those reasons be, exactly?

More than irresponsible, it is downright stupid for a maxillofacial surgeon to suggest and perform procedures on patients who - from an orthognathic point of view - are not good candidates for them. Especially with all the diagnostic tools at their disposal. Doing a SG on an overbite or open bite patient is only going to worsen their appearance and cause problems, including functional ones. Particularly, if a recessed lower jaw isn't corrected (i.e. rotated) in advance, pulling the chin out can result in a vertical rather than horizontal bone movement. In my case, this has lead to constant pain and some difficulty speaking.

Since there is very little in the way of academic literature on SGs, especially in comparison to other jaw surgeries, I think it's important to discuss the reasons behind unsuccessful or problematic SGs such as ours.   

"Most of the complaints" aren't gender specific either. Over the past 2-3 years, I've spoken to men and women who've had bad SGs, even if they've had good jaw surgeries at the same time. Almost all of them had nerve damage, pain/discomfort, mentalis muscle damage and soft tissue deformities. Many had undergone multiple revisions.

Had I seen this thread before my surgery, it would have helped me to realise that I was not a candidate for the procedure and that my doctor was only interested in making easy money.
 
If so many people are citing the same concerns - having been to completely different doctors, in different parts of the world - well, it seems to indicate that the procedure demands highly specialised skills and far more up-to-date techniques than are currently being procured by the average maxillofacial doctor and their 'bandwagon' plastic surgeon mates who think they can try their hand at anything they please.

Looking at open-bite's xrays, her chin bone was wide for a female. The surgeon cut the chin bone at a very wide point as well and by advancing it, it caused her chin and whole jaw to become too masculine. I'm not an expert, but I've seen surgeons cut the bone at a much more narrow point, the advancement gave the women a more pointy feminine chin.

I think she probably would have been better off with a chin implant with a shape set to her liking, but there's other issues to think of there as well. I'm basing this all on the front view btw, I haven't seen her profile.

[Serra]

Looking at open-bite's xrays, her chin bone was wide for a female. The surgeon cut the chin bone at a very wide point as well and by advancing it, it caused her chin and whole jaw to become too masculine. I'm not an expert, but I've seen surgeons cut the bone at a much more narrow point, the advancement gave the women a more pointy feminine chin.

I think she probably would have been better off with a chin implant with a shape set to her liking, but there's other issues to think of there as well. I'm basing this all on the front view btw, I haven't seen her profile.

You're right that my chin was naturally wide already. Your reasoning about the wide cut is the same as ragirl's and seems on point.

[Lazlo]

nah Johnny Depp has always had a very angular face. Sinn said he had buccal fat removal. Which is ridiculous and that Swinton had I can't remember like maybe implants or a face lift or something. Also unlikely.

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[Serra]

nah Johnny Depp has always had a very angular face. Sinn said he had buccal fat removal. Which is ridiculous and that Swinton had I can't remember like maybe implants or a face lift or something. Also unlikely.

Are you sure you want to have surgery with Sinn if he says things like that?
On ratemds, he has a single review and it's bad. I would be apprehensive.

[PloskoPlus]

nah Johnny Depp has always had a very angular face. Sinn said he had buccal fat removal. Which is ridiculous and that Swinton had I can't remember like maybe implants or a face lift or something. Also unlikely.

AFAIR, 21 jump Street his face was quite rotund.

[PloskoPlus]

Are you sure you want to have surgery with Sinn if he says things like that?
On ratemds, he has a single review and it's bad. I would be apprehensive.

Hollywood celebrities have a ton of surgery.  Mostly anti aging.  So Swinton having a face lift is not out of the question.  But there are other cases.  For example, Brad Pitt most definitely had a node job and otoplasty.  Stallone had bad scleral show when he was younger, etc..

[girl]

Looking at open-bite's xrays, her chin bone was wide for a female. The surgeon cut the chin bone at a very wide point as well and by advancing it, it caused her chin and whole jaw to become too masculine. I'm not an expert, but I've seen surgeons cut the bone at a much more narrow point, the advancement gave the women a more pointy feminine chin.

I think she probably would have been better off with a chin implant with a shape set to her liking, but there's other issues to think of there as well. I'm basing this all on the front view btw, I haven't seen her profile.

Yes, I think Open_Bite, Chialatia and me all had that problem. It's the 'woodchopper' approach and risks nerve damage due to the cut being so far back along the lower jaw as well. But a pointy chin can look very odd as well, particularly when the face is long. Lots of women have a roundness or a "curve" from the front. My advancement was way too broad yet distinctly spade like in appearance, which just looked bizarre.

Thing is, if the cut's not right then it can never be rectified through revisional approaches i.e. burring or even partially reversing the chin. Which is why all of us would've probably benefited from an immediate, complete reversal that enabled the bone to reset. Thanks to the general incompetency of the medical profession, a manoeuvre like that is nigh impossible to pull off.

[terry947]

i think high set cheekbones near the corner of the eyes is something that looks better on men. Lower/rounder set cheekbones is feminine. Also dont forget a big part of the S-Curve is from the lateral growth of the cheekbones/zygos. NOT forward growth. Obviously forward growth is important but, imo i think lateral is better.

http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php/topic,857.30.html

~post #39 - describes it perfectly. I've noticed this on all of my best looking friends.

[PloskoPlus]

Yes, I think Open_Bite, Chialatia and me all had that problem. It's the 'woodchopper' approach and risks nerve damage due to the cut being so far back along the lower jaw as well. But a pointy chin can look very odd as well, particularly when the face is long. Lots of women have a roundness or a "curve" from the front. My advancement was way too broad yet distinctly spade like in appearance, which just looked bizarre.

Thing is, if the cut's not right then it can never be rectified through revisional approaches i.e. burring or even partially reversing the chin. Which is why all of us would've probably benefited from an immediate, complete reversal that enabled the bone to reset. Thanks to the general incompetency of the medical profession, a manoeuvre like that is nigh impossible to pull off.

IMO, genioplasty is a compromise, especially big advancements.  There is almost always some kind of step off.  If one can get a a ching wing, one should.  The whole mandibular plane is involved, and it can be moved in all sorts of driections.  Almost any kind of jawline shape is possible (within limits).

[Lazlo]

IMO, genioplasty is a compromise, especially big advancements.  There is almost always some kind of step off.  If one can get a a ching wing, one should.  The whole mandibular plane is involved, and it can be moved in all sorts of driections.  Almost any kind of jawline shape is possible (within limits).

Hey plosko: two questions. Can chin wing be done AFTER one has had a genioplasty? Sinn proposed to widen as well as advance and lengthen my chin. I actually do wand sort of seperate articulation of the chin to make it stronger looking.

Second, could you rank from your knowledge from best to worst the chinwing surgeons who do the surgery as you know them! I understand your list may not be comprehensive.

[PloskoPlus]

Hey plosko: two questions. Can chin wing be done AFTER one has had a genioplasty? Sinn proposed to widen as well as advance and lengthen my chin. I actually do wand sort of seperate articulation of the chin to make it stronger looking.

Yes, but the hardware and the existing bone cuts will surely complicate things and restrict what the chin wing can accomplish.  The chin wing can be done at the same time as the BSSO, provided the BSSO cut is higher.  But this probably rules out augmenting the ramus significantly.  Chin wing can also be done 12 months after BSSO.

Second, could you rank from your knowledge from best to worst the chinwing surgeons who do the surgery as you know them! I understand your list may not be comprehensive.

There are only a handful of doctors who do it.  Mostly German and Swiss.

Triaca invented it, so he's numero uno. He's also probably done more of them than anybody else.  He is super expensive, however.  Brusco, who works with Triaca in Pyramide.  Zarrinbal also seems to have done quite a few and he's 2-3 times cheaper.

AFAIR, Cesar A. Guerrero does some kind of chin wing as well.  He also does some kind of orbital osteotomies.