My results

[Charles-Guillaume]

Hello, I have decided to share with you profile pics of me before and after BSSO + LeFort I.





I am only three weeks postop, so there must be some swelling around the mouth in particular still. Do you think that it looks like my jaws were sufficiently advanced? I feel that my facial angle is still subpar, but perhaps this is due not to jaw retrusion but sloping of the forehead.

Do you think that I would benefit more from a chin wing in about a year from now to strengthen my gonial angle and chin height or forehead grafting to decrease the slope? I could of course get both, but I don't want to go too far in any department, and I am a poor judge of my own face.

EDIT: Just to illustrate what I'm on about, here are a few MS paint morphs (yeah, I can do no better than that :/) that display my current facial angle (line intercepts tip of of chin, nasion, and ideally forehead).

1.) Current angle. Note how the forehead slopes too much so that it doesn't properly line up with the chin, alternatively the chin is retruded.



2.) A (very) suppositional chin wing osteotomy added; the forehead now seems not quite as sloped in comparison.



3.) Forehead augmentation. Vastly improves the facial angle, but might make my mandible look proportionally diminished.




I would very much appreciate your counsel, guys.

[notrain]

do you have your lateral cephalograms (before and after)? they would help more than your pictures.

other than that, your result looks pretty solid. what you wrote to get additional improvement is also sound, it's just a matter of you being willing to spend time and money to make that happen. without seeing your cephs, i can't really say anything with authority though.

[Charles-Guillaume]

do you have your lateral cephalograms (before and after)? they would help more than your pictures.

other than that, your result looks pretty solid. what you wrote to get additional improvement is also sound, it's just a matter of you being willing to spend time and money to make that happen. without seeing your cephs, i can't really say anything with authority though.

Thank you for your comment. I will email my surgeon and ask him for my cephs.

I have plenty of money and unlimited spare time. All I want is to become attractive before I'm 25 so that I may experience the life of someone that women would call "cute". That is, I would very much like to be attractive to women without having to go out of my way to emulate some kind of "tough guy" persona that doesn't harmonise with the actual me. I also don't want to have to implicitly pay for a relationship.

I realise that most people would deem my goals puerile and/or futile, but I simply don't want to live the life of a sexually defunct organism for much longer. Rather, I want to give invasive surgery a shot.

If you notice anything at all about my face that could be surgically altered to make me better-looking, please feel free to mention it. I am considering an orbital rim osteotomy for wider-set eyes already, so there are basically no limitations as for how far I am willing to go.

Actually, there is one limitation--I won't go for synthetic implants of any kind. I'm an osteotomy/grafting kind of guy.

[notrain]

How did you get into this whole jaw / maxfac surgery thing, if you don't mind me asking? Were you referred to a surgical solution by your ortho or did you figure it out yourself? You look early twenties, when I was that age I was so oblivious about these things (sadly) and played video games instead :/ .

WRT what you wrote about relationships, i don't think your post bimax looks are the problem. From your posts you seem highly intelligent and that's probably your biggest problem when it comes to attracting girls your age.

EDIT:

If you notice anything at all about my face that could be surgically altered to make me better-looking, please feel free to mention it. I am considering an orbital rim osteotomy for wider-set eyes already, so there are basically no limitations as for how far I am willing to go.

Chin Wing is a good idea. If you had upper jaw recession before, maybe you could benefit from malar augmentation but I can't see that from the pics. Improving the under eye area would also be possible.

To be clear, none of this is really needed because I think you look fine already. But you sound like good enough doesn't cut it and you are still young so it might be worth it to go all out.

[Charles-Guillaume]

How did you get into this whole jaw / maxfac surgery thing, if you don't mind me asking? Were you referred to a surgical solution by your ortho or did you figure it out yourself? You look early twenties, when I was that age I was so oblivious about these things (sadly) and played video games instead :/ .

That is highly unfortunate.

I noticed that there was something amiss about the way that I looked--none of my ancestors had crowded teeth or "no chin", as I identified the issue back when I was eighteen. A couple of years later I finally received my braces, and researched the whole issue thoroughly. Since my upper lip looked "flat" in profile, I decided that I would probably require a CCW rotation of the lower maxilla, something that my surgeon (a talented and reasonable man) agreed to.

I am Scandinavian, so the whole entire ordeal didn't cost me anything at all (thank you, extensive public health insurance). The bite issue was the cited reason, but in reality I was naturally primarily concerned with my facial appearance.

WRT what you wrote about relationships, i don't think your post bimax looks are the problem. From your posts you seem highly intelligent and that's probably your biggest problem when it comes to attracting girls your age.

Yeah, well, I don't exactly look repulsive. It's just that my personality is so damaged from bullying and emotional starvation. It is of the essence that I obtain a facial attractiveness that would suffice to compensate for this.

I wouldn't say that I am necessarily particularly intelligent, but I will definitely concede that I have an overwhelming disposition to analysis. In common parlance, I "think too much".

Chin Wing is a good idea. If you had upper jaw recession before, maybe you could benefit from malar augmentation but I can't see that from the pics. Improving the under eye area would also be possible.

To be clear, none of this is really needed because I think you look fine already. But you sound like good enough doesn't cut it and you are still young so it might be worth it to go all out.

Chin wing is definitely one of the procedures that I will opt to get. My bizygomatic width is average for an early 20s male (13.8 cm), but I do think that I could use another cm of lateral projection as well as some additional forward projection of the zygoma. However, this will make my already close-set eyes (PD is 5.9-6 cm) look even more close-set if I don't get the orbital rim osteotomy to move the orbits a few mm apart as well.

Going all in is my middle name. When I have decided to do something, there is no stopping me, to the extreme frustration of my close friends and family. They want me to "fit in", live an ordinary life and accept the fluke of beauty for "what it is", something that "doesn't really matter".

Ideally I would want to arrive at a stage where I can manage my day to day life. I am interested in theoretical physics, (natural) theology, and philosophy and would very much want to pursue such a career. However, as it stands, I feel that I must first achieve a synthesis of something closer to my ideal body image with the material dimension that is everything that anyone is ever going to perceive of me.

If it makes sense, I have a strongly "conceptual" self-image. This is probably a byproduct of contemporary narcissism, but it has conquered me entirely, so I cannot stop now.

[PloskoPlus]

So early out of surgery, the only thing that can be ascertained is whether your surgery was botched or not.  It will take another 6 months for everything to settle.  Everyone's face is more swollen in the morning than in the afternoon.  This is really accentuated by post-surgical swelling.  The day you no longer see a difference between morning and afternoon face without consciously looking for it, is the day you can say this is the final result.

I wouldn't touch your nose.  It looks good.

You already have a convex forehead.  Adding anything more to it will feminize you.  What you are actually looking for (without saying so) is a stronger, more masculine brow ridge.  Yours doesn't look strong from the angles you've posted.  Augmenting the top of you forehead will make your brow ridge look even weaker...  But this stuff is complicated.  I too am considering augmenting the forehead.  Mine is short, flat and very heavily sloped.  My concern is that my "strong" brow ridge is in fact a "pseudo strong brow ridge", and will disappear once my forehead is fixed.  But eyes, brow ridge are about 80% of male looks.   There are plenty of dudes who are good looking with potato jaws, but with a great eye area.

[Charles-Guillaume]

So early out of surgery, the only thing that can be ascertained is whether your surgery was botched or not.  It will take another 6 months for everything to settle.  Everyone's face is more swollen in the morning than in the afternoon.  This is really accentuated by post-surgical swelling.  The day you no longer see a difference between morning and afternoon face without consciously looking for it, is the day you can say this is the final result.

My surgeon insists that mine is one of the very best results possible, so hopefully he's right.

I wouldn't touch your nose.  It looks good.

Perhaps the vibe that I get of my nose being too prominent could be salvaged by means of a chin wing and lateral expansion of the zygoma.

You already have a convex forehead.  Adding anything more to it will feminize you.  What you are actually looking for (without saying so) is a stronger, more masculine brow ridge.  Yours doesn't look strong from the angles you've posted.  Augmenting the top of you forehead will make your brow ridge look even weaker...  But this stuff is complicated.  I too am considering augmenting the forehead.  Mine is short, flat and very heavily sloped.  My concern is that my "strong" brow ridge is in fact a "pseudo strong brow ridge", and will disappear once my forehead is fixed.  But eyes, brow ridge are about 80% of male looks.   There are plenty of dudes who are good looking with potato jaws, but with a great eye area.

My browridge has grown a bit in recent years. As you can (perhaps) see, it looks a bit weaker in the before, which was taken a couple of years ago. My father has a strong browridge that developed in his mid-20s, so perhaps I too will be that fortunate.

However, I think that my upper forehead would look better with a tad more amplitude, but perhaps this is my sexual preference for females contaminating my self-analysis.

[PloskoPlus]

Your result is good.  Your jaws look well projected (how big were the movements?).  The nose will get back more of its relative size as the swelling recedes.  But it will still be less prominent than pre-surgery.

Yes, the brow ridge looks stronger in other pictures compared with the first one.  I don't think it's bone.  Just skin and fat descending with age (one of the few benefits of male ageing).

[notrain]

I agree with Plosko, you should wait at least till September until you judge your result. It looks really solid from here.

From which part of Scandinavia are you? I hear Norway has a killer health care system from their passive oil income.

Did you notice any sleep improvements? Your before face looks like the typical sleep apnea face (no offense). I would also be interested how much both jaws were advanced. The lower jaw looks like 16mm advancement, impressive. Did you need a bone graft from the hip for your ccw rotation ?

FWIW I don't think what you are doing is puerile. I don't know your history and you seem to have educated yourself about all of this properly, if you think it will make you happier in the long run, go for it. My own motivation for jaw surgery is also largely of an aesthetic nature, which is probably true for > 75% of all jaw surgery patients. I am actually really close to my own surgery but I have to decide on monomax or bimax. do you mind if I shoot you a PM over the next couple of days to run something by you ?

[Gregor Samsa]

From which part of Scandinavia are you? I hear Norway has a killer health care system from their passive oil income.

Scandinavian maxfax surgeons are far behind the top of the field. Norway is no exception.

[notrain]

his result seems really good and he had ccw rotation. i doubt some other surgeon could have done vastly better.

by the way, what are you up to these days gregor? have you begun treatment with Dr. Z?

[Lazlo]

Don't listen to the other people here. I'm the only real expert on these matters.

Your results look of the highest order. Absolutely wonderful results and they have completely balanced out your face to the degree that you indeed look very handsome/"hot". You should have no problems attracting girls based on your physical appearance alone. Don't worry many, many more people than you think are late bloomers and then take off from that point. You sound intelligent but a bit pretentious. That's okay, we're allowed to be when we're kids and below 25 is a kid in my books.

There is NOTHING that you need done now on your looks. Do you understand me? No chin-wing or forhead augmentation or anything. You have a beautiful profile and great features: i.e.. nosee etc. looks wonderful. You're male model material.

You don't have to behave like a "tough guy" but you do have to cultivate a fun-loving and confident personality to attract girls. But that can be defined across a broad spectrum. Remember it's also a game of probability. Right now you sound like you might come off as a bit of a creep with all this "ontological naturalism" and nihilism bulls**t you're always going on about. But please don't stop. I personally find it quite amusing. Intelligence is attractive but even more important is a sense of humour. No matter who you are you have to take your lumps. You have to fail and experience the rejection of failure many many times before you get good at anything and attracting girls is just such a skill even if you look like --i dunno pick any good looking guy. So go out there and build your bones (metaphorically speaking, you're finished with the literal part).

[Rico]

Charles thank you for posted photos.

You show to Earl25 and Stupidjaw how to do it.
One of the most helpful thread here....

[PloskoPlus]

his result seems really good and he had ccw rotation. i doubt some other surgeon could have done vastly better.

by the way, what are you up to these days gregor? have you begun treatment with Dr. Z?

I agree.  The jaws now look very well projected.  Before OP looked soft.  But we don't have frontal pictures.  A strong lower third is not just about profile.  That's where a chin wing can help.

[Lazlo]

watch it people who are hurting my karma.