is jaw surgery worth it for the potential aesthetics alone?

[jaw]

For just the chance to potentially look better, is jaw surgery worth it?

[ppsk]

by itself, it will not have a dramatic impact. Most people do look better after.

However, it may be a necessary first step, as jaw surgery is the only thing that can provide anterior projection of the jaws. For example, a lot of implant results look subpar because typically the people who think they need implants actually have recession of one or both jaws.

[Maxillofacial Scalpel]

When performed on the appropriate candidate, orthognathic surgery can make a lifechanging difference to those who get it since by the realignment of the upper and the lower teeth issues related to proper functioning such as breathing chewing or even speech are sorted out.

However not every patient that goes through orthognathic surgery necessarily  looks different or even better postoperatively. It can certainly help improve a deficient or overgrown mandible deformity for example, but one should never expect to look like a "model" or "sexy" afterwards to put it simply.

Orthognathic surgery for purely cosmetic reasons i.e. the patient who is willing to go through it might have a moderate jaw deformity but at the same time does not experience any occlusal or overall functional issues , is a risk that is rarely worth it. At best one would be disappointed from the marginal aesthetic improvement and at worst they could end up looking worse than before and have to go through revisional surgery to correct their previously healthy occlusion.

If someone has facial aesthetic concerns that are similar to those of the appropriate orthognathic surgery candidates such as mandibular deficiency, they have much safer options than orthognathic surgery to resolve them.

[ditterbo]

For just the chance to potentially look better, is jaw surgery worth it?

You can see my thread on that, got the same debate in my head as well.  I have a 12mm chin implant that seems to be compensating 'close enough' for the 15mm jaw advancement +3mm genio recommended by Gunson.  Consider with bimax relapse, tissue tightening, etc. and you get no discernible difference in chin distance to the true vertical line between either surgery.

For the sake of this thread, for class 2 jaws, I'm going to argue that a large SG (8-12mm), or ideally chin wing will come within 90% of the aesthetic outcome,  especially considering the dramatic difference in cost, risk and recovery of bimax. That's assuming you are not clinically deformed and have no moderate to severe medical symptoms. Can't comment on a custom chin implant, but suspect that could work just as well. The bimax part is a very subtle aesthetic change in and of itself. 

Someone please tell me I'm way off, but that's what I've gathered from this forum so far, on the whole.

[jaw]

When performed on the appropriate candidate, orthognathic surgery can make a lifechanging difference to those who get it since by the realignment of the upper and the lower teeth issues related to proper functioning such as breathing chewing or even speech are sorted out.

However not every patient that goes through orthognathic surgery necessarily  looks different or even better postoperatively. It can certainly help improve a deficient or overgrown mandible deformity for example, but one should never expect to look like a "model" or "sexy" afterwards to put it simply.

Orthognathic surgery for purely cosmetic reasons i.e. the patient who is willing to go through it might have a moderate jaw deformity but at the same time does not experience any occlusal or overall functional issues , is a risk that is rarely worth it. At best one would be disappointed from the marginal aesthetic improvement and at worst they could end up looking worse than before and have to go through revisional surgery to correct their previously healthy occlusion.

If someone has facial aesthetic concerns that are similar to those of the appropriate orthognathic surgery candidates such as mandibular deficiency, they have much safer options than orthognathic surgery to resolve them.

What other options? I mostly have facial aesthetic concerns. Everything I see for a SG or chin procedure doesn't seem to match the potential for jaw operations

You can see my thread on that, got the same debate in my head as well.  I have a 12mm chin implant that seems to be compensating 'close enough' for the 15mm jaw advancement +3mm genio recommended by Gunson.  Consider with bimax relapse, tissue tightening, etc. and you get no discernible difference in chin distance to the true vertical line between either surgery.

For the sake of this thread, for class 2 jaws, I'm going to argue that a large SG (8-12mm), or ideally chin wing will come within 90% of the aesthetic outcome,  especially considering the dramatic difference in cost, risk and recovery of bimax. That's assuming you are not clinically deformed and have no moderate to severe medical symptoms. Can't comment on a custom chin implant, but suspect that could work just as well. The bimax part is a very subtle aesthetic change in and of itself. 

Someone please tell me I'm way off, but that's what I've gathered from this forum so far, on the whole.

The relapse is scaring me. I haven't seen any SG match what can be done on the maxilla though.

[ditterbo]

what can be done on the maxilla though for significantly improved facial aesthetics? i belive it mildly improves the nasiolabial fold, shrinks the appearance of the nose, or removes excess gum show (gum show is a bigger factor for bimax imo), but other than that?

you could just get a rhinoplasty to achieve most of the same result. or do nothing as rhinoplasties don't work out well way too often. Now if your eyes are also kinda saggy and have significant scleral show, yeah I suppose maxilla advancement helps a little with that. I dono I feel jaded but really the percentage of people in my boat who are just ugly, compounded by recessive facial features like the jaws, who decide to undergo bimax + plastic surgeries to max out their aesthetic potential is like 1/10 of 1% of that subpopulation.

[ppsk]

Obviously it depends on how recessed you are. I've seen some life changing outcomes for sure, but all of them started off badly.

Look at foreverdets posts in this thread: http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=4743.0

They are both have pretty suboptimal jaws and their results are insane.

Now go look at outcomes where they had pretty much balanced profiles in the first place and the difference is marginal.

The result is insane, but its probably worth noting that is the kind of result that can be achieved with large advancements.

The "run of the mill" jaw surgery results seen are people with minor functional problems, with aesthetics being a secondary concern. The whole focus in maxfac on aesthetics as primary and chief concern is a relatively new development it seems.

Point being, I think its not so much a case of only people who are severely deformed being able to get those kind of results (this doesnt make sense, as the limitations in these cases would be more limiting on the aesthetic outcome of one operation) but rather the capability/willingness of the doctor to achieve large movements.

10mm bsso + 8mm genio. Thats a chin point measurement increase of 18mm. Thats dramatic, and thats transformative.

Foreverdet's own results, some 20mm of chin point measurement, are equally impressive despite him feeling like the other case is better because the deformity was more evident. I disagree, I think his results are just as impressive.

[jaw]

what can be done on the maxilla though for significantly improved facial aesthetics? i belive it mildly improves the nasiolabial fold, shrinks the appearance of the nose, or removes excess gum show (gum show is a bigger factor for bimax imo), but other than that?

you could just get a rhinoplasty to achieve most of the same result. or do nothing as rhinoplasties don't work out well way too often. Now if your eyes are also kinda saggy and have significant scleral show, yeah I suppose maxilla advancement helps a little with that. I dono I feel jaded but really the percentage of people in my boat who are just ugly, compounded by recessive facial features like the jaws, who decide to undergo bimax + plastic surgeries to max out their aesthetic potential is like 1/10 of 1% of that subpopulation.

My eyelids and eyes are slightly saggy. Additionally nasolabial folds being slightly fixed would be another concern of mine. Which is why I considered double jaw surgery.

See, that's another issue. I keep hearing Rhinoplasty results never turn out well for men, but my nose overprojects and is only compounded by my recession. I've been told by both surgeons and orthodontists that braces would fix my overbite since it's not huge. I've also been told perhaps just doing the lower jaw. I'm still waiting on what Gunson says in two months. But I'm looking at this being probably 80% for aesthetics.

But If I just fixed the nose and got an sg maybe I'd look a lot better, but maybe I guess I'm just wondering if I'd achieve better results with just jaw surgery alone. And if surgery is worth the risk for aesthetics and hardly any functional gain.

But then again I'd have to agree. I hardly see any true noticeable aesthetic gain for people that didn't have a huge recession which just worries me.


Or maybe I just accept how ugly I am and move on. But that would be hard knowing that there's a chance something could be fixed.


My ideal goal would be to minimize the folds, proportion the nose, and achieve more facial harmony. I like my front view more when I jut my jaw forward but that really doesn't say much. I just don't know how much everything else will change with jaw surgery as I keep reading it's a chance it could full on change the cheeks, eyes, etc.

[swsee]

I agree that it seems that jaw surgery only really makes a significant aesthetic impact when advancement is rather large. If you need like a 6mm advancement you're probably better off with implants or a chin wing.

I just had surgery 6 days ago. Recovering pretty well, but still really swollen. First few days are hell. I've had lots of injuries and surgeries, and this is by far the worst 4 days ever, so don't underestimate the recovery. My surgery was to open my airway (and address some mild OSA) and largely for aesthetics. I had a pretty major deficiency, and as a result, large movements. Upper Jaw moved forward 6mm. Impacted 1 mm anteriorly, downgrafted 5mm posteriorly to rotate counter-clockwise. Lower jaw was brought forward 15mm, plus 7mm genio. With rotation, my chin came forward ~25-26mm. I had good eyes, brow, cheekbones, etc so really my main problem was my severely recessed jaws..

I obviously understood the risks, and went ahead with it.  I didn't have many other options to get the results I was hoping for. Time will tell if this was the right call.

[PloskoPlus]

I agree that it seems that jaw surgery only really makes a significant aesthetic impact when advancement is rather large. If you need like a 6mm advancement you're probably better off with implants or a chin wing.

I just had surgery 6 days ago. Recovering pretty well, but still really swollen. First few days are hell. I've had lots of injuries and surgeries, and this is by far the worst 4 days ever, so don't underestimate the recovery. My surgery was to open my airway (and address some mild OSA) and largely for aesthetics. I had a pretty major deficiency, and as a result, large movements. Upper Jaw moved forward 6mm. Impacted 1 mm anteriorly, downgrafted 5mm posteriorly to rotate counter-clockwise. Lower jaw was brought forward 15mm, plus 7mm genio. With rotation, my chin came forward ~25-26mm. I had good eyes, brow, cheekbones, etc so really my main problem was my severely recessed jaws..

I obviously understood the risks, and went ahead with it.  I didn't have many other options to get the results I was hoping for. Time will tell if this was the right call.

Who was your surgeon?

[Lefortitude]

My eyelids and eyes are slightly saggy. Additionally nasolabial folds being slightly fixed would be another concern of mine. Which is why I considered double jaw surgery.

See, that's another issue. I keep hearing Rhinoplasty results never turn out well for men, but my nose overprojects and is only compounded by my recession. I've been told by both surgeons and orthodontists that braces would fix my overbite since it's not huge. I've also been told perhaps just doing the lower jaw. I'm still waiting on what Gunson says in two months. But I'm looking at this being probably 80% for aesthetics.

But If I just fixed the nose and got an sg maybe I'd look a lot better, but maybe I guess I'm just wondering if I'd achieve better results with just jaw surgery alone. And if surgery is worth the risk for aesthetics and hardly any functional gain.

But then again I'd have to agree. I hardly see any true noticeable aesthetic gain for people that didn't have a huge recession which just worries me.


Or maybe I just accept how ugly I am and move on. But that would be hard knowing that there's a chance something could be fixed.


My ideal goal would be to minimize the folds, proportion the nose, and achieve more facial harmony. I like my front view more when I jut my jaw forward but that really doesn't say much. I just don't know how much everything else will change with jaw surgery as I keep reading it's a chance it could full on change the cheeks, eyes, etc.

ive seen ur pics and i think jaw surgery alone will leave you sorely dissapointed.  should probably see Dr. S in zurich,  but id even question if he has the abilities to give you the transformation youre looking for.

Im having the aesthetics conundrum right now.  I have minimal functional issues, but my jaws are kinda small and recessed.  I think the decision to get surgery for aesthetics is personal.  most of the population accepts the hand theyre delt, and moves on with life.  some people, however, will never be happy with their appearance no matter how they look.

[The Quest for Aesthetics]

If you go with dr sailer or at least go for that sort of change then probably yes it would be worth it, but opinion on sailer's aesthetic is not unanimous

[usedtobepretty]

I am 5 wks post op purely for aesthetic reasons. (I did have 2nd class but my bite was OK). I can tell you, though its totally subjective- at the moment - I hate the results I believe I look worse and on top- I have paralyzed left upper and lowr lip. It can still resolve I hear, I may still "get used" to my new look and as mentioned before - Its all very subjective - but for me - I regret the surgery every second from the moment I wake up.. If you will go and do it, make sure you choose the best surgeon, not the best in your town or even country - really the one who makes tons of surgeries for aesthetic reasons, who cooperates w plastic surgeon whilst preparing who LISTENS to you and finds out what is your subjective idea of beauty, and what you LIKE and dislike about yourself. I think I ended up looking like my surgeon imagined. He is happy and thinks I look beautiful. I hate it and its nothing I imagined or expected. I liked my chin - my doc decided to do genii @ operating table, I liked my face a bit shorter - he lengthen it so now its looong, (to match 1/3rds..) and so on. I have not showed my face to anyone yet Im sick to the stomach, one person from this forum told me (after sending my pics) I look objectively better, my family is not saying much which I see as a bad sign, my closest friends say "you didn't change that much" which also is not "wow you look great or better"..
Having said that, if I could change the time, Id still do it, Id just do 3 things different:
*choose surgeon based on before after photos of patients operated FOR AESTHETIC REASONS ONLY
*change surgeon if he was ignoring my suggestions about movements (I wanted more fwd projection and lest downdraft)
*trust myself more..

** also If I knew about nerve damage option that affects my look (lips are crooked) I don't know if Id do it, hoping this will come back (nerve hasn't been cut) but if not.. than even perfect aesthetic result would still not be worth it. Im a rare case though my doc said he only had 2 patients with such "delicate" whatever to react with paralysis like that.

[jaw]

I am 5 wks post op purely for aesthetic reasons. (I did have 2nd class but my bite was OK). I can tell you, though its totally subjective- at the moment - I hate the results I believe I look worse and on top- I have paralyzed left upper and lowr lip. It can still resolve I hear, I may still "get used" to my new look and as mentioned before - Its all very subjective - but for me - I regret the surgery every second from the moment I wake up.. If you will go and do it, make sure you choose the best surgeon, not the best in your town or even country - really the one who makes tons of surgeries for aesthetic reasons, who cooperates w plastic surgeon whilst preparing who LISTENS to you and finds out what is your subjective idea of beauty, and what you LIKE and dislike about yourself. I think I ended up looking like my surgeon imagined. He is happy and thinks I look beautiful. I hate it and its nothing I imagined or expected. I liked my chin - my doc decided to do genii @ operating table, I liked my face a bit shorter - he lengthen it so now its looong, (to match 1/3rds..) and so on. I have not showed my face to anyone yet Im sick to the stomach, one person from this forum told me (after sending my pics) I look objectively better, my family is not saying much which I see as a bad sign, my closest friends say "you didn't change that much" which also is not "wow you look great or better"..
Having said that, if I could change the time, Id still do it, Id just do 3 things different:
*choose surgeon based on before after photos of patients operated FOR AESTHETIC REASONS ONLY
*change surgeon if he was ignoring my suggestions about movements (I wanted more fwd projection and lest downdraft)
*trust myself more..

** also If I knew about nerve damage option that affects my look (lips are crooked) I don't know if Id do it, hoping this will come back (nerve hasn't been cut) but if not.. than even perfect aesthetic result would still not be worth it. Im a rare case though my doc said he only had 2 patients with such "delicate" whatever to react with paralysis like that.

Thanks for the advice. That sounds pretty depressing. I've read up on the possible nerve damages and possible perma numbness. It just makes this whole thing even harder to decide. Ultimately only considering it to look better but this is also not a realistic view to have bc I know it could end up worse.

Are you sure, since its only 5 weeks, that its not just the swelling that is making your view of yourself distorted?

ive seen ur pics and i think jaw surgery alone will leave you sorely dissapointed.  should probably see Dr. S in zurich,  but id even question if he has the abilities to give you the transformation youre looking for.

Im having the aesthetics conundrum right now.  I have minimal functional issues, but my jaws are kinda small and recessed.  I think the decision to get surgery for aesthetics is personal.  most of the population accepts the hand theyre delt, and moves on with life.  some people, however, will never be happy with their appearance no matter how they look.

Why do you think only jaw would leave me disappointed? I was originally considering jaw, rhino, and otoplasty since these are the three ugliest features i have. I'd consider doing the eyelids but I have no clue what my eyes will be like post surgery. I'm definitely not going to be the type that can accept how they look, it just means too much.

Get aesthetic or die trying imo.

might be easier for me to die tbh. really hate being unattractive.

[usedtobepretty]

Thanks for the advice. That sounds pretty depressing. I've read up on the possible nerve damages and possible perma numbness. It just makes this whole thing even harder to decide. Ultimately only considering it to look better but this is also not a realistic view to have bc I know it could end up worse.

Are you sure, since its only 5 weeks, that its not just the swelling that is making your view of yourself distorted?

Of course Im not sure I can update you in next couple wks, it s what it is for now.