Lefort1 cut, ccw and nose altering

[InvisalignOnly]

Gummysmile is an overrated flaw imo. You don't have to smile. Doing heavy bonecutting with unknown consequences only to get rid of some gummy smile... I don't know. Good old fashioned orthodontic work might be better than heavy bonecutting. But maybe it has more to do with the surgeon's skills.

Good points, also gummy smile / tooth show becomes 'better' with age, which is why Le Fort 1 can make people look older (which is what most of us don't want, especially women).

[april]

The nose and philtrum length are a trade-off of whatever she had done, but the chin is just unforgivable. They didn't have to do a genio.

[april]

She was so pretty before except for the teeth which was distracting, she could have just had braces with extractions plus lip filler etc. to fix the gummy smile.

Extractions might've also lengthened her philtrum.  That's my experience anyway, when teeth get retracted back the philtrum & upper lip are less supported and drape differently.

[ben from UK]

The nose and philtrum length are a trade-off of whatever she had done, but the chin is just unforgivable. They didn't have to do a genio.

Her profile improved, she had a weak chin. The thing I don't understand is western surgeons not doing additional boneshaving. It seems to be a typical asian procedure, but some caucasian women would improve with this procedure I guess.

Sometimes, as a man, I find women with retruded chins more sexy.

I personally don't like the Jennifer Lopez bonestructure.

[InvisalignOnly]

Extractions might've also lengthened her philtrum.

Definitely, but she wouldn't have had the additional problems (weird nose, lower jaw / chin messed up, asymmetry etc.). I think the first picture was taken before she had any orthodontic treatment (I used to look almost exactly the same, with the same teeth, before braces - the resemblance is almost scary). So would have looked a lot better with the right kind of orthodontics, even without surgery. It looks like she had some kind of an improvement after surgery because her teeth look so bad in the 'before' photos, but there are other solutions for that then surgery.

[InvisalignOnly]

That’s because they are the biggest liars I’ve ever met. They’ll say anything to get you into surgery.

I have to agree, especially when it comes to the so called 'functional' improvements. When I first consulted a surgeon about my bite over twenty years ago, he said my teeth will fall out, I will have digestive problems (because of not being able to chew properly...), speech problems, TMJ pain and so on if I do nothing. I did nothing except orthodontics and never had any problems with anything. On the other hand, practically everyone that has surgery will have problems with numbness, pain, sometimes speech and eating and so on. I'm pretty sure the surgery causes more functional problems than it solves. The main reason I can see for getting it, for most people, is to improve their looks - and in that case we need to understand the potential aesthetic drawbacks like nose changes etc.

[april]

Her profile improved, she had a weak chin. The thing I don't understand is western surgeons not doing additional boneshaving. It seems to be a typical asian procedure, but some caucasian women would improve with this procedure I guess.

Sometimes, as a man, I find women with retruded chins more sexy.

I personally don't like the Jennifer Lopez bonestructure.

Her profile looks nice. The projection is ok. But from the front the chin is too long and the shape is odd.

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm a straight female but I also think most women look better & softer with a short and slight-moderate retrusive chin.

[ben from UK]

Her profile looks nice. The projection is ok. But from the front the chin is too long and the shape is odd.

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm a straight female but I also think most women look better & softer with a short and slight-moderate retrusive chin.

If you can have a better profile without making the front of the chin look too long or too masculine, then the procedure is a succesfull one. Appearantly, in many cases, surgeons achieve a better profile but worse front with genio. So maybe they should reconsider the technique or improve it, until they get it right.

[PloskoPlus]

I have to agree, especially when it comes to the so called 'functional' improvements. When I first consulted a surgeon about my bite over twenty years ago, he said my teeth will fall out, I will have digestive problems (because of not being able to chew properly...), speech problems, TMJ pain and so on if I do nothing. I did nothing except orthodontics and never had any problems with anything. On the other hand, practically everyone that has surgery will have problems with numbness, pain, sometimes speech and eating and so on. I'm pretty sure the surgery causes more functional problems than it solves. The main reason I can see for getting it, for most people, is to improve their looks - and in that case we need to understand the potential aesthetic drawbacks like nose changes etc.

I started consulting when I was 36. No one was really pulling that functional s**t on me too much. Because obviously if I had no issues at my age it, it was highly unlikely I’d have them henceforth. (others in my family with a similar bite were well on their way to losing their teeth at the same age) The surgeon I eventually went with did bark at me “well at least you’ll have a good bite!” after he got tired of my questioning regarding all the aesthetic pitfalls (all of which came true). This is how they justify their crimes. Nerve damage, chimp lip. Don’t matter, because good bite! They know full well that most people are doing this surgery for aesthetic reasons first and foremost, yet many will sell it on aesthetic grounds, and when aesthetics turn out poor, will gaslight you and tell you how you knew “it’s just a bite-fixing operation”.

[Post bimax]

Seriously, with the obvious asymmetry, horrifying witch chin, strange looking crooked mouth and nose, you think she looks better than she did before the operation? Wow. She was so pretty before except for the teeth which was distracting, she could have just had braces with extractions plus lip filler etc. to fix the gummy smile. She is very young too, her philtrum will be much longer in later life. They ruined her face for life, as far as I am concerned. She only looks slightly better from profile but who's going to keep staring at someone from profile? It's the front view that counts.

No, I think with a proper rhino she could look better. As it stands she looks worse.

Gummy smile is a flaw that stands out to me personally. As you said, she might have been better off overall addressing it by other means and avoided the tradeoffs she got.

With less nostril show and flare I think she would look quite good in the smiling pic. Maybe something can still be done about the chin too.

[InvisalignOnly]

Maybe something can still be done about the chin too.

Yeah, I'm sure she could potentially look better with even more surgery, my point is, she has just had major surgery to make her look better and overall, she ended up looking worse.

[InvisalignOnly]

The surgeon I eventually went with did bark at me “well at least you’ll have a good bite!” after he got tired of my questioning regarding all the aesthetic pitfalls (all of which came true). They know full well that most people are doing this surgery for aesthetic reasons first and foremost, yet many will sell it on aesthetic grounds, and when aesthetics turn out poor, will gaslight you and tell you how you knew “it’s just a bite-fixing operation”.

Exactly, that obsession with the 'good bite' and the 'fixing the bite card' to justify it if things go wrong, or to justify the whole operation in the first place. Who wants a 'good bite'? Apparently I have had a 'bad bite' for all these years and it never bothered me a bit. What bothers me is aesthetics and, recently, some breathing issues but so far I have no evidence that it's jaw related (still trying to work that one out).

I am new here and don't know your story, sounds like you had some bad experiences with surgery? Did you write more about that somewhere on the forum?

[kavan]

The nose and philtrum length are a trade-off of whatever she had done, but the chin is just unforgivable. They didn't have to do a genio.

BINGO!  She didn't get a BSSO and got chin instead. She got single jaw surgery with genio. It's just that we don't know circumstances of not doing the BSSO. Doctor's design or patient desire to avoid it?   Like what if the patient was afraid a BSSO would have made her look 'more masculine' and attributed a more 'heart shaped' face with being more feminine.

I mention that because the outcome looks like it could have resolved to SOMEONE making those types of associations and I've seen those types of auto-associations made on this board.

[kavan]

Yeah, I'm sure she could potentially look better with even more surgery, my point is, she has just had major surgery to make her look better and overall, she ended up looking worse.

I think her outcome looks exactly what an association driven design would look like. That's what BSSO avoidance on a female with her face could look like when associations like: 'BSSO on female = masculine' and 'Heart shaped face = feminine' DRIVE the DECISION.

Surely, you've read those types of associations being made on this board. It's not a thing where the associations are 'wrong' to make. It's more of a matter of when to use them to drive a decision.

We just don't know who's the 'driver', the doctor or the patient.
 

[kavan]

Definitely, but she wouldn't have had the additional problems (weird nose, lower jaw / chin messed up, asymmetry etc.). I think the first picture was taken before she had any orthodontic treatment (I used to look almost exactly the same, with the same teeth, before braces - the resemblance is almost scary). So would have looked a lot better with the right kind of orthodontics, even without surgery. It looks like she had some kind of an improvement after surgery because her teeth look so bad in the 'before' photos, but there are other solutions for that then surgery.

I think your reactions, on this thread, to her outcome such as the following, just to quote a few, should be shared with the next doctor(s) you consult with (along with her photos). I mean, descriptions such as; 'horrifying', 'ruined her face for life'...etc; the reactions you had to her changes would help the doctor steer you in the right direction as in assist with a choice; surgery for you or no surgery for you.

I was too horrified ......

.....with the obvious asymmetry, horrifying witch chin, strange looking crooked mouth and nose...They ruined her face for life......