Was thinking about a lower third procedure to improve facial aesthetics

[frozenchicken]

Profile seems to be the biggest issue. Was thinking really about any procedure but lower third appears to be the biggest problem - lacking volume. I believe my lips are protruding forward too much and my chin is not, as well as having high philtrum and low philtrum to chin ratio. Additionally there is limited jawline definition despite lower fat and short ramus. Lastly my maxilla has some forward growth in constrast to lower third but is also long. Gonial angle is not so bad at about 135 degrees

Was suggested fillers at first to experiment with the looks but from what I understand they do not add that much

Wrap around jaw implant could be another option but it's quite expensive at at least 10000 Euros (based in Europe) and would be only done at a later stage. While I don't mind commitment I believe it is best to ask online enthusiasts first as doctors tend to push things too much

(I have poor hair framing at the moment which doesn't do me any favors but I'm just post hair transplant and this is the ugliest stage, however it doesn't change my poor lower third)

I managed to attach only 1 image so had to compress all 3 together

[ben from UK]

Your profile seems to be quite ok, even with a slightly recessed chin. Maybe you could improve the front a bit with chinwork. You also have a slightly long philtrum, which you adressed yourself, and you're norwooding. HT could bring you up as well.

[GJ]

OP, I think you look totally normal.
Very mild lack of projection in the lower jaw but really, not a big deal. Philtrum is a bit long, but you're a guy, you can get away with it. Facial hair covers this wonderfully. Anyone recommending procedures is irresponsible, imo, and you likely have BDD and/or perfectionism.

[kavan]

Profile seems to be the biggest issue. Was thinking really about any procedure but lower third appears to be the biggest problem - lacking volume. I believe my lips are protruding forward too much and my chin is not, as well as having high philtrum and low philtrum to chin ratio. Additionally there is limited jawline definition despite lower fat and short ramus. Lastly my maxilla has some forward growth in constrast to lower third but is also long. Gonial angle is not so bad at about 135 degrees

Was suggested fillers at first to experiment with the looks but from what I understand they do not add that much

Wrap around jaw implant could be another option but it's quite expensive at at least 10000 Euros (based in Europe) and would be only done at a later stage. While I don't mind commitment I believe it is best to ask online enthusiasts first as doctors tend to push things too much

(I have poor hair framing at the moment which doesn't do me any favors but I'm just post hair transplant and this is the ugliest stage, however it doesn't change my poor lower third)

I managed to attach only 1 image so had to compress all 3 together

Nose base at Anterior Nasal Spine (ANS) looks forward. Often the case when the nose to lip angle is overly open (obtuse) which you have. Consistent with your observation of chin NOT looking as RELATIVELY forward as lip area.

ETA: Your chin/jaw area is NOT backwards. It just looks so because the ANS is too forwards. The aesthetic disharmony is at the ANS.

[frozenchicken]

Your profile seems to be quite ok, even with a slightly recessed chin. Maybe you could improve the front a bit with chinwork. You also have a slightly long philtrum, which you adressed yourself, and you're norwooding. HT could bring you up as well.

By your frontal chin comment do you mean adding vertical volume? My understanding is this is mainly achieved through custom implants, as regular implants only focus on profile addressing and fillers are just too minor. I might be wrong but this is what I gathered before. Very helpful to pinpoint the critical areas rather than attempting to address everything even not so bad!

Edit:

My vision is lacking, as I forgot to address the hair. I'm almost two months post the procedure and now it looks very bad. I was about Norwood 2.5 before and I have to say that actually now it still looks better than with long hair before.

[frozenchicken]

OP, I think you look totally normal.
Very mild lack of projection in the lower jaw but really, not a big deal. Philtrum is a bit long, but you're a guy, you can get away with it. Facial hair covers this wonderfully. Anyone recommending procedures is irresponsible, imo, and you likely have BDD and/or perfectionism.

I enjoy any fair comment. My understand is that there is nothing too much bad about my facial features but still I'm looking to further increase the aesthetics if practically and rationally possible to a fair standard.
Another user mentioned correcting the nose to fix the jaw balance. I was then thinking of at least fillers temporary. Anyway, this doesn't seem that critical as I gathered from opinions.
RE philtrum, it's about 19mm. Was contemplating the only corrective option as I understood in the face of lip lift but this area is new for me. Currently my goal was to do at first some most probably chin/jaw implant to see if any improvements are worth it.

Edit:

My bad for double posting, was thinking it would auto collate. Will act in future accordingly.

Nose base at Anterior Nasal Spine (ANS) looks forward. Often the case when the nose to lip angle is overly open (obtuse) which you have. Consistent with your observation of chin NOT looking as RELATIVELY forward as lip area.

ETA: Your chin/jaw area is NOT backwards. It just looks so because the ANS is too forwards. The aesthetic disharmony is at the ANS.

This is something new to me and I am so thankful to you for bringing this up. Maybe it's not my nose size or the chin, but rather the area where the two meet. Never thought about this. Will definitely bring this up with the plastic surgeon if they miss on this initially!

[frozenchicken]

Saw the doctor today.

Was advised to remove two lower premolars which would then allow my lower jaw to push forward, creating chin protrusion. Never heard of this before and can't find something exact online. Seems to be new way procedure. Thoughts? Thanks

[notrain]

Saw the doctor today.

Was advised to remove two lower premolars which would then allow my lower jaw to push forward, creating chin protrusion. Never heard of this before and can't find something exact online. Seems to be new way procedure. Thoughts? Thanks

This isn't a new procedure at all, it is at least 30-40 years old. Here is a gallery of people who had it done: https://www.crossboworthodontic.com/xbow_cases.htm#classII

Of course they had an actual jaw issue which you don't have. I don't have a clue why anyone in your situation would willingly sacrifice two teeth and spend (at least) 15 months in braces followed by surgery to make themselves look like having an underbite, but knock yourself out.

[frozenchicken]

This isn't a new procedure at all, it is at least 30-40 years old. Here is a gallery of people who had it done: https://www.crossboworthodontic.com/xbow_cases.htm#classII

Of course they had an actual jaw issue which you don't have. I don't have a clue why anyone in your situation would willingly sacrifice two teeth and spend (at least) 15 months in braces followed by surgery to make themselves look like having an underbite, but knock yourself out.

Thanks. I was said that this can be done without bracers in 9 months and would only be done for aesthetic reasons. This was also brought up to me as an innovative solution compared to implants/fillers and the total price would only be 5000 Euros. I did express my concern about teeth removals affecting jaw negatively but was said all is good

Now I'm not too sure if all of this was in my best interests

[notrain]

Thanks. I was said that this can be done without bracers in 9 months and would only be done for aesthetic reasons. This was also brought up to me as an innovative solution compared to implants/fillers and the total price would only be 5000 Euros.

If a doctor told you this, run as far away as possible. You can't extract teeth and do surgery without braces. For one, you'd need to close the extraction gaps somehow after the teeth get pulled and after the surgery you need to move the teeth into final occlusion. Plus, the braces are also used during surgery. There is precisely zero possibility to do this without braces and definitely not in 9 months. What you were told does not make any sense at all / is not possible. If you want to get a surgery then get a chin wing, but don't f**k with your bite.

[Post bimax]

Thanks. I was said that this can be done without bracers in 9 months and would only be done for aesthetic reasons. This was also brought up to me as an innovative solution compared to implants/fillers and the total price would only be 5000 Euros. I did express my concern about teeth removals affecting jaw negatively but was said all is good

Now I'm not too sure if all of this was in my best interests

Think about what would happen if you got your premolars extracted and didn't have braces.

[frozenchicken]

Think about what would happen if you got your premolars extracted and didn't have braces.

Of course, I agree. My bad, I have forgot to mention, a substitute for bracers was suggested which I didn't quite catch - somewhat a removable insert which I just wear when I am able to

[ben from UK]

By your frontal chin comment do you mean adding vertical volume? My understanding is this is mainly achieved through custom implants, as regular implants only focus on profile addressing and fillers are just too minor. I might be wrong but this is what I gathered before. Very helpful to pinpoint the critical areas rather than attempting to address everything even not so bad!

Edit:

My vision is lacking, as I forgot to address the hair. I'm almost two months post the procedure and now it looks very bad. I was about Norwood 2.5 before and I have to say that actually now it still looks better than with long hair before.

I don't believe in bdd/mental problems. It's clear to me you have some flaws that could be adressed. You're close to a very good face but at the same time it's a bit off. I think the philtrum is the biggest problem (but I'm not sure, can only be sure by morphing). I don't know what you mean by vertical volume. I'm not even sure a chin implant would bring you up so much from the front. It's a difficult case cause it's about millimeters here and there. Could be 1 -2 millineter philtrum length.

Your nose is very good. I agree with Kavan though that there is forward projection at the base. But still I'm not sure if this is the main problem that could bring you up alot. I think the philtrum might be the key factor here. You should find someone that could morph it. Could also be a combination of some tiny flaws (undereye area, chin, philtrum, hair) that makes you just not what it should be/could be.

[kavan]

Philtrum area can be long when anterior nose spine at base of nose orients diagonally upward because that's what contributes to the  nose to lip angle being overly OPEN.

Chin is in good position and NOT recessive at all. Lower lip to chin angle is NORMAL. If you extracted pre-molars to push the lower teeth backwards with braces, the only way that would make your chin LOOK more prominent would be because the lower lip would push back with the lower teeth being pushed back and due to that your chin and lower lip would pretty much be on same yellow line. HOWEVER, that's a BAD idea because, that, in turn would OPEN a NORMAL lower lip to chin angle which would RESULT in your upper lip area even looking MORE relatively forward to your lower lip.

Facial aesthetics is all about ANGLE RELATIONSHIPS. All you would be doing by pushing lower lip backwards (which is what happens with pre-molar extractions and braces to push lower front teeth backwards) would be calling more attention to the KEY aesthetic problem which is the overly open nose to lip angle.

Image included with this response.

[Post bimax]

Philtrum area can be long when anterior nose spine at base of nose orients diagonally upward because that's what contributes to the  nose to lip angle being overly OPEN.

Chin is in good position and NOT recessive at all. Lower lip to chin angle is NORMAL. If you extracted pre-molars to push the lower teeth backwards with braces, the only way that would make your chin LOOK more prominent would be because the lower lip would push back with the lower teeth being pushed back and due to that your chin and lower lip would pretty much be on same yellow line. HOWEVER, that's a BAD idea because, that, in turn would OPEN a NORMAL lower lip to chin angle which would RESULT in your upper lip area even looking MORE relatively forward to your lower lip.

Facial aesthetics is all about ANGLE RELATIONSHIPS. All you would be doing by pushing lower lip backwards (which is what happens with pre-molar extractions and braces to push lower front teeth backwards) would be calling more attention to the KEY aesthetic problem which is the overly open nose to lip angle.

Do you think ANS shaving is advisable in this case?  It looks to me like there is some 'tethering' between the top of the philtrum and the nose.  I think shaving the ANS would close the angle a bit. Maybe ANS shaving with a rhino?