Techniques to widen chin & jaw?

[Nikolai]

Hi, I am a candidate for DJS+BSSO, but I also have an incredibly narrow chin and narrow jaw. I have this post saved from a long time ago (potentially from this forum) and wanted to get opinions of whether what was proposed in that post is realistic, and if so, whether it would be a good idea to attempt this before, or after DJS+BSSO in my prospective surgery pipeline, and if this would prevent me from pursuing future surgeries (once healed) in any way. Also wondering who (in the US but would go overseas if needed) would consider doing this. Alternatively, I am open to being educated on the best way to achieve this widening effect if it's possible (in the first place) through another means (as I need a technique that affords me the most width I can get). I know this is jawsurgeryforums but I've also recently seen suggestions of the less invasive 'MSE' and 'MSDO' from videos on YouTube like this one and wanted to see if members here see this is as a viable way as well to achieve width: https://youtu.be/i_6RRfLGbhA?si=DM5i5g6UM3wRbNCg

Thanks!

[mediumdrinkofwater]

That post is the dumbest ive read in a while...smh

Better of with getting implants probably

[Nikolai]

That post is the dumbest ive read in a while...smh

Well it is probably over 10 years old too, to be fair.

Better of with getting implants probably

I wouldn't mind implants, I was discouraged from pursuing them though a while back by one of the doctors I had met with to get DJS+BSSO (the doctor stressed infection and bone resorption possibilities), but I figure they could accomplish something similar to this a lot more easily. Though I figure if I go the implant route, it would logically have to be after any kind of DJS+BSSO/Genio/Chin Wing to at least let the result from those surgeries settle and see what kind of implant I'd go for then.

[GJ]

I don't really understand this post. I read it twice, and it seems like you posted a photo of a different person who isn't you, and then linked to a YouTube video that's 16 minutes long (nobody here has time to watch that). Post a photo of yourself so we can see what you're dealing with.

In general, the mandible can't be expanded because it puts undue stress on the condyles and will over time destroy them. It's generally done for facial deformity cases. Most credible surgeons won't do it outside of those cases. So, I'd think implants are going to be the only way to widen your mandible if you go to a credible surgeon.

[Nikolai]

I don't really understand this post. I read it twice, and it seems like you posted a photo of a different person who isn't you, and then linked to a YouTube video that's 16 minutes long (nobody here has time to watch that). Post a photo of yourself so we can see what you're dealing with.

In general, the mandible can't be expanded because it puts undue stress on the condyles and will over time destroy them. It's generally done for facial deformity cases. Most credible surgeons won't do it outside of those cases. So, I'd think implants are going to be the only way to widen your mandible if you go to a credible surgeon.

Sorry, I didn't intend for this post to come off as a bit scatterbrained but I can see now how it did. The purpose of that YouTube video link was to see if anyone here has pursued MSE+MSDO for maxillary/mandibular widening, as it seemed like one potential way to achieve width. And then the other image was just inquiring if that posters suggestion was viable as well. Anyway, here's what I'm dealing with from a front view:

[kavan]

Some notes:

1: Re: "DJS + BSSO": DJS is Double Jaw Surgery. DJS= BSSO + Lefort (to maxilla) and often with genio. So, someone doesn't have "DJS + BSSO". They have DJS + (maybe) a genio with it.

2: The MORPH shown here isn't actually an OUTCOME of any surgeries/procedures done on the person. It's an outcome of MOVING PIXELS. There is NO WAY of knowing that the morph shown here is actually even a predictor of what the morpher thinks it predicts. So, it isn't a prediction either of an outcome you could possibly get based on nothing more than someone moving pixels on ANOTHER person's photo. 

3: The creator of the YT channel you linked to seems very knowledgeable about MSE and MSDO. He offers individual video consults. Maybe look into that to get his take on your candidacy for those things.

4: A 'T section' genio is a genio that widens the chin. A horizontal cut is made across the bottom of chin and a vertical cut down the middle. The bottom of the chin is then separated into 2 parts and a bone graft is used in-between to WIDEN the chin. It does not put any stress on the condyles because it is not aimed at expanding the entire mandible, ONLY the chin.

5: Implants can widen the entire ARC of the lower face; chin and mandible.

[Nikolai]

Hi Kavan, thanks for weighing in. I have a few follow up's if you don't mind:

1: Re: "DJS + BSSO": DJS is Double Jaw Surgery. DJS= BSSO + Lefort (to maxilla) and often with genio. So, someone doesn't have "DJS + BSSO". They have DJS + (maybe) a genio with it.

1. Noted and thanks for the correction.

2: The MORPH shown here isn't actually an OUTCOME of any surgeries/procedures done on the person. It's an outcome of MOVING PIXELS. There is NO WAY of knowing that the morph shown here is actually even a predictor of what the morpher thinks it predicts. So, it isn't a prediction either of an outcome you could possibly get based on nothing more than someone moving pixels on ANOTHER person's photo.

2. Yep, you can disregard that. In hindsight I could've probably omitted the morph and kept the text section just to see if the movements sounded plausible, without the morph as a distraction to that question.

3: The creator of the YT channel you linked to seems very knowledgeable about MSE and MSDO. He offers individual video consults. Maybe look into that to get his take on your candidacy for those things.

3. Will do.

4: A 'T section' genio is a genio that widens the chin. A horizontal cut is made across the bottom of chin and a vertical cut down the middle. The bottom of the chin is then separated into 2 parts and a bone graft is used in-between to WIDEN the chin. It does not put any stress on the condyles because it is not aimed at expanding the entire mandible, ONLY the chin.

4. Are there any drawbacks/'contraindications' to this 'T section' genio? I've never heard of it before but that's more likely due to my own ignorance still; I'm also am curious if getting this type of genio would prevent me from getting any other chin or jaw work done afterward if necessary (hopefully only one surgery needed, but just curious for a worst case)? Also wondering if you have any names of surgeons that do this movement, or if it's really not that special of an augmentation and virtually any [big name] surgeon would both be capable and willing to do it.

5: Implants can widen the entire ARC of the lower face; chin and mandible.

5. Can you share your stance on implants (for mandible/chin)? That is, whether you believe in some cases they are comparably viable to moving bone? Or if they're always going to be notably an inferior option. And also, if there's a material you'd suggest for implants (i.e. titanium vs silicone).

Thanks!

[kavan]

Hi Kavan, thanks for weighing in. I have a few follow up's if you don't mind:
1. Noted and thanks for the correction.
2. Yep, you can disregard that. In hindsight I could've probably omitted the morph and kept the text section just to see if the movements sounded plausible, without the morph as a distraction to that question.
3. Will do.
4. Are there any drawbacks/'contraindications' to this 'T section' genio? I've never heard of it before but that's more likely due to my own ignorance still; I'm also am curious if getting this type of genio would prevent me from getting any other chin or jaw work done afterward if necessary (hopefully only one surgery needed, but just curious for a worst case)? Also wondering if you have any names of surgeons that do this movement, or if it's really not that special of an augmentation and virtually any [big name] surgeon would both be capable and willing to do it.
5. Can you share your stance on implants (for mandible/chin)? That is, whether you believe in some cases they are comparably viable to moving bone? Or if they're always going to be notably an inferior option. And also, if there's a material you'd suggest for implants (i.e. titanium vs silicone).

Thanks!

As to the T section genio, I mentioned it as something for you to look into since you didn't know that procedure existed to widen the chin. My stance on implants is that if moving bone (jaw surgery) is needed, you do the jaw surgery first and later the implants. There are pros and cons with each material. But first you need to do your own research on that as to what they are because different people have difference preferences. Also, I lack the time to educate you on those things.

[Nikolai]

That's fair. Thanks again for the info.

[Salemare]

There is another technique you may want to investigate to see if relevant called SFOT (Surgically facilitated orthodontic therapy) it is also mentioned on the Jaw hacks channel you listed in your post. With SFOT it combines using a corticotomy and bone graft to build out the bone around the edge of the jaw and then shift the teeth outwards to "expand" the arch but its not actually expanding the mandible itself in the way MSDO does. I dont know whether this technique would provide the desired effect but its one to look into.

As pointed out previously MSDO is only expanding the mandible at the front not the back and from what I have read it seems to be a mixed bag of some people having no issues vs others having problems with their condyles. The same can be said for MSE with potential for serious asymettry issues and visual disturbances vs others who experience breathing improvements and aesthetic benefits.