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91
Aesthetics / Re: Please help! Surgeon recommendation for chin reduction surgery
« Last post by Linda91 on March 24, 2024, 03:39:41 AM »
Thank you so much for your replies GJ and Kavan!

I always had excessive chin bone height. In 2021, I had Lefort1 + BSSO + sliding genioplasty. The surgeon attempted to shorten the chin by the sliding genioplasty. It has become a few mm shorter but still I have an excess of 4 mm*.

In the attachment you find:
- CBCT (post op)
- Measurement of vertical proportions (post op).

*I think lower subvisions should be 1:2 (upper lid 1/3, lower lip 2/3). My lip subdivion display a ratio of 1:2.2 (20mm:44mm) indicating 4 mm excess height in the chin.

4mm is a lot. What happened to cause that much excess height?

I'm not sure on a surgeon who specializes in that...I think any good surgeon should be able to handle it. The big risk is cutting the mentalis a 2nd time. You could get droop, damage the muscle, erratic scar tissue that causes strange sensations, etc, so make sure to ask about all that.

@GJ: Thank you so much for warning me about the big risk of cutting the mentalis a 2nd time. I had a consultation with Dr Jeffrey Spiegel. He suggested shaving the chin bone a few mm shorter through an incision inside the mouth instead of removing a midsection. Does this technique also pose a risk of drooping or damaging the muscle?


Chin reduction isn't really an isolated type specialty. It's in the venue of procedures many max fax docs do along with double jaw surgery when chin reduction is needed in addition. Often done by removing a midsection of the chin and getting the bottom section to close the gap removed from the mid section.

It would need to be established IF in fact your candidacy was isolated ONLY to a chin reduction (and no jaw surgery) and what the millimeter excess was, something that would be established by going on consults.

I would not advise seeking out doctors who do only chin reduction, claim as a specialty. It is preferable to consult with surgeons who do chin reduction ALONG with the rest of the jaw surgery who can tell you if your issue is 'only' isolated to chin reduction.

@Kavan: Thank you for explaining that chin reduction is not a standalone specialty. I reasoned I should look for a max fac doc who specializes in FFS or V line surgery. I reasoned that they have more experience with chin reduction than most max fax docs. Could you please share your thoughts on that? Does my reasoning make sense or should I rather look for a general max fac?

Many thanks in advance!
92
Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by kavan on March 23, 2024, 10:12:42 PM »
I've seen this reply of yours before Kavan. I undertand where it's coming from. I assure you I've rented a TON of articles. I would appreciate to know if there are noteable articles on it that are hard to find. Like I said, i've even tried contacting said doctor of said article. I even had a consultation with one.

The take home message of my statement is that I don't spoon feed with help about pursuing ML3. So, those wanting this need to rely on their own smarts and ability to research and go on many consultations as did Earl. Not my task here to compensate for any lapses of abilities or luck in that regard.
93
Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by kavan on March 23, 2024, 09:57:01 PM »
My reply didnt register properly when I quoted you, but I said I will look into more articles.

I edited out the statement that you put inside my quoted comment.
94
Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by BurnSoul on March 23, 2024, 08:26:48 PM »
My reply didnt register properly when I quoted you, but I said I will look into more articles.
95
Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by BurnSoul on March 23, 2024, 07:33:45 PM »
I'll tell you what I don't agree with. I don't agree with spoon feeding people who fly in here seeking out MLF3 who need special advice because 'Earl had one'.  I'm including an entry to that effect that I made some time ago which applies to people who fly in here for any type of coaching in pursuit of what Earl had. Earl did this on his OWN. He is really smart guy to do on his own with NO coaching from anyone else. So, I use the same standard for other seeking what he had. Here is what I said long while ago and it still holds:
------------

"Ever since Earl's story, so many people come here wanting to be SPOON FED info about L3s and various permutations of 'modified' L3's.

Earl's real story is that he did research ON HIS OWN (medical journals), knew exactly what he wanted and WHY and had a very strong preference in favor of bone cuts over orbital rim implants and of course had the prominent eyes (bug eyes). I think he took a few years of lots of research into the medical papers and consulting around based on the knowledge he ACQUIRED on HIS OWN to cross reference with a good handful of doctors he traveled far to consult with and subsequently chose the doctor he chose.

So NONE of this stuff was handed to him on a platter (or spoon fed) on here as is the case of most of the people coming to JSF looking to be spoon fed info on L3s and various modifications thereof. In fact, a few people who just blindly fell into Earl's doctor's lap 'because Earl did it' could not have possibly been as well prepared as he was in terms of IDing themselves as ideal candidates for orbital rim area advancements this way because they didn't get the extent of improvement he got.

There is ample info out there on L3s and modifications thereof. But finding requires RESEARCH ABILITIES in addition to having the salient anatomy underbelt and ability to 'digest' medical articles and/or a long time to increase knowledge that way as to 'digest' conceptual material.

In essence Earl had the ability to FIND information on this (appropriate med journals) on HIS OWN and to PROCESS it in ACCORDANCE to his aesthetic situation and had all that UNDERBELT when he consulted with a variety of doctors. Also, he knew enough to pursue that surgery AFTER he got his jaw situation in balance.

Seriously, a LOT of the people flying in here wanting to know about L3s have acquired jacks**t info on their own, need to be spoon fed and demonstrate very little capacity to process information. Any doctor you consult with won't be spoon feeding it either and acquisition of knowledge, ON YOUR OWN (like Earl did) will be needed to increase the level of info you get from any consult you go on. That said, be careful about riding on someone else's coat tails for esoteric surgeries like chin wings and L3s . I find that people who are successful with the more esoteric surgeries are good researchers and good at processing complex information and don't need mother bird to chew up and spit out the worm for them.

That said, my policy on 'spoon feeding' is I will sometimes do it for people having a hard time with some of the JAW BALANCE relationships (Lefort1, BSSO and genio) but NOT for the L3s. This is because people coming to a JAW SURGERY forum demonstrate some to enough understanding of jaw to jaw relationships to fill in some of the blanks they have. But about 90-95% of those coming here wanting to know about L3s (or think they need them) are just TOO FULL of BLANKS to fill in for them.

Hence, my policy is for people wanting what Earl had is to BE LIKE EARL and do their own research as he did. Then come back with some demonstration of knowledge in that regard and only a FEW blanks needed to be filled in. Of course, my policy on this does not preclude others who want to tell you all about L3s in the absence of even seeing what you look like."


96
Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by BurnSoul on March 23, 2024, 07:23:03 PM »
I've seen this reply of yours before Kavan. I undertand where it's coming from. I assure you I've rented a TON of articles. I would appreciate to know if there are noteable articles on it that are hard to find. Like I said, i've even tried contacting said doctor of said article. I even had a consultation with one.
97
Aesthetics / Re: Please help! Surgeon recommendation for chin reduction surgery
« Last post by kavan on March 23, 2024, 04:35:56 PM »
Chin reduction isn't really an isolated type specialty. It's in the venue of procedures many max fax docs do along with double jaw surgery when chin reduction is needed in addition. Often done by removing a midsection of the chin and getting the bottom section to close the gap removed from the mid section.

It would need to be established IF in fact your candidacy was isolated ONLY to a chin reduction (and no jaw surgery) and what the millimeter excess was, something that would be established by going on consults.

I would not advise seeking out doctors who do only chin reduction, claim as a specialty. It is preferable to consult with surgeons who do chin reduction ALONG with the rest of the jaw surgery who can tell you if your issue is 'only' isolated to chin reduction.
98
Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by kavan on March 23, 2024, 03:55:54 PM »
I'm not even sure if this is possible, but to avoid the step off it would require sculpting some type of graft (bone or HA) in the eye socket area - just seems super sketchy and un-probabilistic it would work. To imagine a step off, image a staircase with steps. As one step moves forward in relation to the other, there's a ledge that's left at that transition point. That's what makes them steps. So, I think you'd have this near your eye socket. My guess is your eyes would look more deep set as the bone in front moves forward, and if a ledge forms, that would be an entirely different look. Kavan, do you agree with this? I think a ledge would form...

I'll tell you what I don't agree with. I don't agree with spoon feeding people who fly in here seeking out MLF3 who need special advice because 'Earl had one'.  I'm including an entry to that effect that I made some time ago which applies to people who fly in here for any type of coaching in pursuit of what Earl had. Earl did this on his OWN. He is really smart guy to do on his own with NO coaching from anyone else. So, I use the same standard for other seeking what he had. Here is what I said long while ago and it still holds:
------------

"Ever since Earl's story, so many people come here wanting to be SPOON FED info about L3s and various permutations of 'modified' L3's.

Earl's real story is that he did research ON HIS OWN (medical journals), knew exactly what he wanted and WHY and had a very strong preference in favor of bone cuts over orbital rim implants and of course had the prominent eyes (bug eyes). I think he took a few years of lots of research into the medical papers and consulting around based on the knowledge he ACQUIRED on HIS OWN to cross reference with a good handful of doctors he traveled far to consult with and subsequently chose the doctor he chose.

So NONE of this stuff was handed to him on a platter (or spoon fed) on here as is the case of most of the people coming to JSF looking to be spoon fed info on L3s and various modifications thereof. In fact, a few people who just blindly fell into Earl's doctor's lap 'because Earl did it' could not have possibly been as well prepared as he was in terms of IDing themselves as ideal candidates for orbital rim area advancements this way because they didn't get the extent of improvement he got.

There is ample info out there on L3s and modifications thereof. But finding requires RESEARCH ABILITIES in addition to having the salient anatomy underbelt and ability to 'digest' medical articles and/or a long time to increase knowledge that way as to 'digest' conceptual material.

In essence Earl had the ability to FIND information on this (appropriate med journals) on HIS OWN and to PROCESS it in ACCORDANCE to his aesthetic situation and had all that UNDERBELT when he consulted with a variety of doctors. Also, he knew enough to pursue that surgery AFTER he got his jaw situation in balance.

Seriously, a LOT of the people flying in here wanting to know about L3s have acquired jacks**t info on their own, need to be spoon fed and demonstrate very little capacity to process information. Any doctor you consult with won't be spoon feeding it either and acquisition of knowledge, ON YOUR OWN (like Earl did) will be needed to increase the level of info you get from any consult you go on. That said, be careful about riding on someone else's coat tails for esoteric surgeries like chin wings and L3s . I find that people who are successful with the more esoteric surgeries are good researchers and good at processing complex information and don't need mother bird to chew up and spit out the worm for them.

That said, my policy on 'spoon feeding' is I will sometimes do it for people having a hard time with some of the JAW BALANCE relationships (Lefort1, BSSO and genio) but NOT for the L3s. This is because people coming to a JAW SURGERY forum demonstrate some to enough understanding of jaw to jaw relationships to fill in some of the blanks they have. But about 90-95% of those coming here wanting to know about L3s (or think they need them) are just TOO FULL of BLANKS to fill in for them.

Hence, my policy is for people wanting what Earl had is to BE LIKE EARL and do their own research as he did. Then come back with some demonstration of knowledge in that regard and only a FEW blanks needed to be filled in. Of course, my policy on this does not preclude others who want to tell you all about L3s in the absence of even seeing what you look like."

99
Aesthetics / Re: Please help! Surgeon recommendation for chin reduction surgery
« Last post by GJ on March 23, 2024, 08:50:03 AM »
4mm is a lot. What happened to cause that much excess height?

I'm not sure on a surgeon who specializes in that...I think any good surgeon should be able to handle it. The big risk is cutting the mentalis a 2nd time. You could get droop, damage the muscle, erratic scar tissue that causes strange sensations, etc, so make sure to ask about all that.
100
Aesthetics / Please help! Surgeon recommendation for chin reduction surgery
« Last post by Linda91 on March 23, 2024, 07:47:42 AM »
Hi there,

I am looking for a surgeon who specializes in chin reduction surgery.
I would like to have some excess height (4mm) removed.
Can anyone recommend a surgeon who is great at chin reduction surgery and has a good aesthetic eye?
I am open to surgeons worldwide.
Any recommendation is more than welcome :)
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