Future is bright, do what you can in the meantime.

[CuriousDonut]

Just try to be f**king happy, exhaust all available options when it comes to surgery and accept the outcome and attempt to be at peace with it, because you've given it a shot. The majority of experts predict singularity will occur within our lifetime (depends on how old some of you are). Once that happens, it's any ones guess. Hello nanotech, hello advanced surgery, hello age reversal, hello lifelike 100% realistic simulations/virtual reality of our world/society at any time you pick.

That's my plan at least, gonna do what I can with available surgeries, accept that I've done all there is that could have been done and just live life, become knowledgeable and bide time until the singularity

(this is for those that are unhappy about aesthetic outcomes btw)

[Jilkster]

Stick to your wig Mr Kurzweil, you're too old for jaw surgery.

[CuriousDonut]

Stick to your wig Mr Kurzweil, you're too old for jaw surgery.

you're the type of person holding society and human evolution down you realise?

[Jilkster]

you're the type of person holding society and human evolution down you realise?

Just poking some fun at "The majority of experts predict singularity will occur within our lifetime ".

I'm certainly hoping for rejuvenation biotech and artificial general intelligence in particular. And perhaps narrower AI that will really speed up rejuvenation biotech. I even donate to the SENS foundation.

Just didn't dig the kurzweilian tone here. Also the fact that there's a chance of indefinite lifespans in our lifetime should be a major reason to be very careful with surgery, not to live it up doing crazy surgeries and taking major risks.

[ForeverAloneDude]

Just try to be f**king happy, exhaust all available options when it comes to surgery and accept the outcome and attempt to be at peace with it, because you've given it a shot. The majority of experts predict singularity will occur within our lifetime (depends on how old some of you are). Once that happens, it's any ones guess. Hello nanotech, hello advanced surgery, hello age reversal, hello lifelike 100% realistic simulations/virtual reality of our world/society at any time you pick.

That's my plan at least, gonna do what I can with available surgeries, accept that I've done all there is that could have been done and just live life, become knowledgeable and bide time until the singularity

(this is for those that are unhappy about aesthetic outcomes btw)

Nothing medical happens in just a few years. To be honest, most of the medical advancements we have had were around 40-50 years ago weren't they?

A lot of this stuff needs massive amount of approval and for things like aesthetic craniofacial procedures, it will take a long time to bring any tangible advancements.

Money is the limiting factor. Not just research, but consumers' money. Most people in even wealthy countries like the USA don't even have 5k to just spend.

If we can automate procedures where a surgeon can enter in certain parameters and a laser can precisely make an incision into the bone and make precise movements, then it will be a big step forwards. It won't cut down on the amount of education including med school etc. However, it will allow doctors to perform procedures on multiple patients at once which will allow them to feasibly lower their prices and everything else will come down.

And since it will all be automated, surgeon skill in performing these procedures won't even be part of the question. Their knowledge and expertise will still be important.

Maybe when I'm 32 instead of 22 I won't even care about dating/sex/relationships. But I will be able to reflect more on my sentiment that youth in the end is precious. And looks determine how people treat you. Even people of the same gender.

[Lazlo]

Nothing medical happens in just a few years. To be honest, most of the medical advancements we have had were around 40-50 years ago weren't they?

A lot of this stuff needs massive amount of approval and for things like aesthetic craniofacial procedures, it will take a long time to bring any tangible advancements.

Money is the limiting factor. Not just research, but consumers' money. Most people in even wealthy countries like the USA don't even have 5k to just spend.

If we can automate procedures where a surgeon can enter in certain parameters and a laser can precisely make an incision into the bone and make precise movements, then it will be a big step forwards. It won't cut down on the amount of education including med school etc. However, it will allow doctors to perform procedures on multiple patients at once which will allow them to feasibly lower their prices and everything else will come down.

And since it will all be automated, surgeon skill in performing these procedures won't even be part of the question. Their knowledge and expertise will still be important.

Maybe when I'm 32 instead of 22 I won't even care about dating/sex/relationships. But I will be able to reflect more on my sentiment that youth in the end is precious. And looks determine how people treat you. Even people of the same gender.

If you're only 22 you're a lucky lucky person. Don't waste your time on this right now. You're right when you're 32 all of this will be way more advanced. Get really good at something society values during the next 10 years. Like get obsessed with that. Then worry about your looks later.

[ForeverAloneDude]

If you're only 22 you're a lucky lucky person. Don't waste your time on this right now. You're right when you're 32 all of this will be way more advanced. Get really good at something society values during the next 10 years. Like get obsessed with that. Then worry about your looks later.

I've been on this for like 8 hours a day. Its really unhealthy. I think about my appearance and my romantic loneliness the moment I wake up. So yeah, you're right.

However, I'm not one of those guys from those particular forums who think that if one isn't a male model they are useless as a human being or romantically.

I'm legit one of those guys that girls said "eww" to about me when I was in my adolescence.

Also about your comment about when I'm 32 things will be more advanced. Actually I was saying the opposite with what I said at the start. That's what I think. I think that medical changes are slow and take lots of time to approve. And it takes time to train surgeons to account for them and learn.

What do you think though? You know more than I do and have procedures while I haven't had a single one yet. You did the research haha more than I have.

Also you're right. I have to focus on making sure that no matter what tech comes out, money won't be a limiting factor for me.

[jusken]

Also about your comment about when I'm 32 things will be more advanced. Actually I was saying the opposite with what I said at the start. That's what I think. I think that medical changes are slow and take lots of time to approve. And it takes time to train surgeons to account for them and learn.

What do you think though? You know more than I do and have procedures while I haven't had a single one yet. You did the research haha more than I have.

Also you're right. I have to focus on making sure that no matter what tech comes out, money won't be a limiting factor for me.

It's great that I hear more and more people interested in future technologies.  At the risk of sounding like a nutter again on here, I'll add a couple more thoughts on this.

It is true that certain technologies like biotech haven't evolved much in recent decades.  In order for major advancements in this field to happen we really do need AI assistance, and this is just starting to really ramp up.  Understanding biology and genetics is an incredibly complex problem, but also a perfect problem for advances in machine learning.  In other words, probably not nearly as far off as some would expect (assuming you're modeling your predictions on past trends).

In the meantime, the fact that you have 8 hours a day just to think about your appearance tells me you're far more privileged than average.  You're also young and have lots of time left in your life.  Those that are truly suffering and deeply unhealthy should be the ones who benefit from these technologies first.  After that, as long as society doesn't collapse, none of these advancements should be cost prohibitive to anyone.  We'll see!

I'm not really judging you though - I've spent countless hours thinking about this stuff - and have probably been in the same boat as yourself.  I do think one benefit though is learning the nature of entitlement and arrogance in our society, which we all have to learn to control.  Everyone's lot in life is, at least mostly, a lottery...

[GJ]

Good thread.

[ForeverAloneDude]

It's great that I hear more and more people interested in future technologies.  At the risk of sounding like a nutter again on here, I'll add a couple more thoughts on this.

It is true that certain technologies like biotech haven't evolved much in recent decades.  In order for major advancements in this field to happen we really do need AI assistance, and this is just starting to really ramp up.  Understanding biology and genetics is an incredibly complex problem, but also a perfect problem for advances in machine learning.  In other words, probably not nearly as far off as some would expect (assuming you're modeling your predictions on past trends).

In the meantime, the fact that you have 8 hours a day just to think about your appearance tells me you're far more privileged than average.  You're also young and have lots of time left in your life.  Those that are truly suffering and deeply unhealthy should be the ones who benefit from these technologies first.  After that, as long as society doesn't collapse, none of these advancements should be cost prohibitive to anyone.  We'll see!

I'm not really judging you though - I've spent countless hours thinking about this stuff - and have probably been in the same boat as yourself.  I do think one benefit though is learning the nature of entitlement and arrogance in our society, which we all have to learn to control.  Everyone's lot in life is, at least mostly, a lottery...

I'm interested in future technologies since its really the only thing actually ugly people can hope to have a normal romantic life. As I've said before, I'm not one of those trolls from certain forums who believe that anybody who isn't a model is inherently lesser or deluded to think that anybody who isn't a model won't have good, stable, happy relationships. Or one of those who can have normal romantic relationships but are unhappy that they can't "slay."

AI assistance along with quantum computing will be what we need. If we can automate understanding biology and structure of cells and their interactions with each other, of course we can have massive strides.

Of course I'm basing my inherent hopelessness off historical trends. And its not looking good to me, unfortunately.

Also, yes. I'm quite economically privileged compared to most even in first world countries. Not rich, but def from an upper middle class background. I have time left in absolute terms. But I don't have much time for youth, youthful relationships, etc. I'm socially disadvantaged. I had girls say "eww, ForeverAloneDude" back in elementary and middle school. I hope these technologies won't be cost prohibitive to everyone. But I also hope that they exist. Maybe what lazlo told me is right. I should work from 22 to 32 on making as much money as I can so money won't be a limiting factor.

No matter what, if I look good at 30 or 40, I still won't be able to live a good life of my teens and 20s. And that hurts. I'vve always maintained that youth is the most precious aspect of life. Even college can be relatively careless. Everyone is young, full of energy, etc.

And I'm worried that even at 32, I do all this and we are at the same state as before.

Yes, I've learned a lot about society. About how people who have been born with better cards tell people (especially men) who don't to "shut up and deal with it" etc. it sucks. Many good looking people act like they have put effort into their romantic success. And that sucks. I wish society changed and accepted the reality of things. Maybe then, men wouldn't be ostricized for being a virgin etc.

I hear the "you can play your cards well even if you have very few." The problem is that I have none and cannot even enter the casino.

[jusken]

I'm interested in future technologies since its really the only thing actually ugly people can hope to have a normal romantic life. As I've said before, I'm not one of those trolls from certain forums who believe that anybody who isn't a model is inherently lesser or deluded to think that anybody who isn't a model won't have good, stable, happy relationships. Or one of those who can have normal romantic relationships but are unhappy that they can't "slay."

AI assistance along with quantum computing will be what we need. If we can automate understanding biology and structure of cells and their interactions with each other, of course we can have massive strides.

Of course I'm basing my inherent hopelessness off historical trends. And its not looking good to me, unfortunately.

Also, yes. I'm quite economically privileged compared to most even in first world countries. Not rich, but def from an upper middle class background. I have time left in absolute terms. But I don't have much time for youth, youthful relationships, etc. I'm socially disadvantaged. I had girls say "eww, ForeverAloneDude" back in elementary and middle school. I hope these technologies won't be cost prohibitive to everyone. But I also hope that they exist. Maybe what lazlo told me is right. I should work from 22 to 32 on making as much money as I can so money won't be a limiting factor.

No matter what, if I look good at 30 or 40, I still won't be able to live a good life of my teens and 20s. And that hurts. I'vve always maintained that youth is the most precious aspect of life. Even college can be relatively careless. Everyone is young, full of energy, etc.

And I'm worried that even at 32, I do all this and we are at the same state as before.

Yes, I've learned a lot about society. About how people who have been born with better cards tell people (especially men) who don't to "shut up and deal with it" etc. it sucks. Many good looking people act like they have put effort into their romantic success. And that sucks. I wish society changed and accepted the reality of things. Maybe then, men wouldn't be ostricized for being a virgin etc.

I hear the "you can play your cards well even if you have very few." The problem is that I have none and cannot even enter the casino.

It's obvious that you are deeply wounded by your appearance, and that everything revolves around that.  I don't know what your situation is exactly, but I can surmise a lot just based on this.  I was a very unattractive teenager too, but still had a great youth.  I had a big blank spot with sexual relationships - and this felt very bad, but I think it tends to dominate people's thoughts too much around this time.  You aren't bed ridden are you?  You don't enjoy doing things in your life?  Your youth will certainly be the best time of your life, relationships or no.

Use that economic advantage, and not just for your appearance - my god.  If I was in my early twenties right now, I may have ended up in the same profession, but AI (a tangential field to my own), seems really interesting.  Companies like OpenAI do fellowships, get in there and innovate.  It's a high demand field, but more than that, it's interesting work.  Stimulate your brain and problem solve - in my early 30's I'm far more afraid of boring work than anything else haha.

That's good that you think about society.  However, your comments about 'AI being good for ugly people' is just such a lame focus.  Yeah, it can help with that, but it can also do a lot of good.  Your focus on people who have it better than you shows that you haven't learned enough in my mind.  Really?  You think there aren't people who have it worse than you, who would love to have the opportunities you do?  Why are you entitled to your imagined standards?  Do you really think there are no females that would be with you if you worked on it?  Or are you afraid they aren't what you want?

Think about this... yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had the same opportunities and could experience what they wanted, but it will take work - not just wishful thinking.

[ForeverAloneDude]

It's obvious that you are deeply wounded by your appearance, and that everything revolves around that.  I don't know what your situation is exactly, but I can surmise a lot just based on this.  I was a very unattractive teenager too, but still had a great youth.  I had a big blank spot with sexual relationships - and this felt very bad, but I think it tends to dominate people's thoughts too much around this time.  You aren't bed ridden are you?  You don't enjoy doing things in your life?  Your youth will certainly be the best time of your life, relationships or no.

Use that economic advantage, and not just for your appearance - my god.  If I was in my early twenties right now, I may have ended up in the same profession, but AI (a tangential field to my own), seems really interesting.  Companies like OpenAI do fellowships, get in there and innovate.  It's a high demand field, but more than that, it's interesting work.  Stimulate your brain and problem solve - in my early 30's I'm far more afraid of boring work than anything else haha.

That's good that you think about society.  However, your comments about 'AI being good for ugly people' is just such a lame focus.  Yeah, it can help with that, but it can also do a lot of good.  Your focus on people who have it better than you shows that you haven't learned enough in my mind.  Really?  You think there aren't people who have it worse than you, who would love to have the opportunities you do?  Why are you entitled to your imagined standards?  Do you really think there are no females that would be with you if you worked on it?  Or are you afraid they aren't what you want?

Think about this... yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had the same opportunities and could experience what they wanted, but it will take work - not just wishful thinking.

My life revolves around my appearance since it is the main thing that is limiting me from getting a relationship and being happy. I'm not just unattractive as a teenager who is a late bloomer. My craniofacial structure is terrible. And I'm 5 foot 4 as a guy. I was never treated well by guys nor girls.

It wouldn't dominate my mind if I knew that at 30 I'd have great romantic/sexual relationships. Its the uncertainty that is painful and the fact that my youth is over. Honestly I feel like my life is over too. The true time where everyone has time and energy to have a wonderful free life in university is gone. I'll be in my 30s before I know it with no romantic experience and uglier than I already am. I'll live my life grinding my day out and going back and forth to work... alone. This isn't a fun life. Its torture. Literal torture. No matter how interesting the topic of discussion is.

You can't study things that interest you if you are hopeless and depressed. I go to circles with people in my situation, but most are just average looking average height guys who just don't try. Furthermore, hearing stories of people who are having healthy romantic/sex lives just make me want to put a gun to my head and pull the trigger since for me, getting a girl to be physically into me will never happen and I'll always miss out this key experience of life to be happy.

Seriously, getting a girl to go on a date with me is like going to freaking Mars for me. And that too, failure can happen afterwards since anything can screw it up. I'll always worry about the stability of my relationship because of my looks.

It may be a grass is greener on the other side thing with other people who have it economically worse than me, but even studies have shown that to make sure that people live well and live happy is to have a good friend circle and healthy romantic relationships. And even in economic hardships it allows people to live. It makes people work through that struggle of life.

I used to wonder why billionaires etc committed suicide when I was younger. I was too simplistic and money-centered historically. And I used to buy that nonsense fed to me that "your time will come and things will just happen."

How? 22 will be my supposed "peak" age of attractiveness. And I can't imagine how worse I'll look.

I know what you mean with finding girls who like nerdy guys and who nobody really likes. But they still have the prereq of wanting me to fit some standard. I fit nobody's standards. If there aren't facial standards, there will be standards for height standards, etc. It usually takes one thing to fit someone's physical standards for a person to be contempt. I got nothing.

And is it unreasonable for me to not want to date someone with kids? Why can't I enjoy the experience of carefree road trips with an SO etc having a lot of fun, etc. Kids will complicate things there. And at 22 I don't want kids of my own let alone someone else's kids especially when often I'll be the second priority in the relationship.

Being sexually attractive isn't work and effort. That's a myth. You either have the genetics to appeal to most, have some genetics to appeal to some people, or in the rare case appeal to basically nobody. And it sucks.

[ForeverAloneDude]

It's obvious that you are deeply wounded by your appearance, and that everything revolves around that.  I don't know what your situation is exactly, but I can surmise a lot just based on this.  I was a very unattractive teenager too, but still had a great youth.  I had a big blank spot with sexual relationships - and this felt very bad, but I think it tends to dominate people's thoughts too much around this time.  You aren't bed ridden are you?  You don't enjoy doing things in your life?  Your youth will certainly be the best time of your life, relationships or no.

Use that economic advantage, and not just for your appearance - my god.  If I was in my early twenties right now, I may have ended up in the same profession, but AI (a tangential field to my own), seems really interesting.  Companies like OpenAI do fellowships, get in there and innovate.  It's a high demand field, but more than that, it's interesting work.  Stimulate your brain and problem solve - in my early 30's I'm far more afraid of boring work than anything else haha.

That's good that you think about society.  However, your comments about 'AI being good for ugly people' is just such a lame focus.  Yeah, it can help with that, but it can also do a lot of good.  Your focus on people who have it better than you shows that you haven't learned enough in my mind.  Really?  You think there aren't people who have it worse than you, who would love to have the opportunities you do?  Why are you entitled to your imagined standards?  Do you really think there are no females that would be with you if you worked on it?  Or are you afraid they aren't what you want?

Think about this... yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had the same opportunities and could experience what they wanted, but it will take work - not just wishful thinking.

Also I'm curious dude. When was your first romantic relationship? Was she into you physically? Did you have to throw away every standards you had?

[kavan]

Good thread.

You spoke too soon. 

[ForeverAloneDude]

You spoke too soon. 

I mean I'll stop since that's the message you're giving. But its safe to say we are making lots of assumptions if want to assume the future is bright.

Its pretty hard to just "try to be f**king happy" when there isn't much hope. That's like saying "cheer up" out of nowhere to someone who is depressed.