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Okay I get it now, thanks a lot for your help. I have no idea about the exact movements yet, but my teeth won't really be moved now, so I assume it's a pretty big mandible movement.

Do you think it's relevant that my front teeth were all moved upwards by a different ortho to fix my gummy smile? It made my bite flatter https://imgur.com/a/v0VN2Pn

What is relevant here is what I mentioned prior. A surgery (and surgeon doing it) would take into consideration where your teeth are NOW.

So, you've introduced a new piece of information which would have been better  introduced all together with your first post. So, we will try the other CW-r rotation point.

OK, the CW-r could be one or the other rotation point. Neither of us know for sure which rotation point is to be used for the CW-r. What both rotation points have in common is that the chin point (lower jaw) will rotate backwards and down and the back of the mandible will move up with CW-r around EITHER of rotation points (ANS or insisor).

 Let's try ANS as the rotation point. With that rotation point, the soft tissue of the lips and also the frontal incisors will go backwards with that rotation point.
In that case. In that case, the excess angle of inclination of the incisors and also their protrusion  will be REDUCED. So, maybe he chose that rotation to reduce the excess angle and and extent of protrusion of the upper incisors.

Your midface could look flat to you via RELATIVE COMPARISON of the excess angle and protrusion of the upper incisors. It isn't flat or recessed in terms of some other angle measurements maxfax surgeons use (SNA norms).

With rotation around the ANS point (CW-r at the maxilla), the (chin point) at mandible also rotates down and backwards along with the rotation at the maxilla. However, the rotation allows for advancing the mandible along a better angle of inclination relative to a horizontal plane which makes it possible to advance it without the chin point 'sticking out too much' or looking 'over advanced'.

As is obvious from the ceph, the mandible needs to come forward to correct the bite.
What may not be obvious to you is that the surgeon is looking at a TRIANGLE made from 3 points and seeing that rotating it CW-r is the optimal rotation for your case. However, I can't draft out a long geometrical tutorial in the event the rotation of a triangle is not a concept you are familiar with.

So, all I can offer here is WHY I think your surgeon's proposal is on target with correcting your bite and also mitigating the excess 'stick out' area of the upper lip. The general concept of what he's proposing rings right (correct) to me and there is NOTHING in the information presented to opine on the extent of the mandible advancement that you say is a 'big mandible advancement'.

Köszönöm : )

But should they not at least tip the top teeth back at first and extract teeth? My upper teeth are very tipped forwards, and honestly from what I see both jaws are recessed and not just my lower jaw



I have no idea if they'd rotate around the ANS or incisor point, I only know that they'd move the back of my maxilla upwards. But can my face really handle a big mandible advancement?

After 3 years of failed braces treatment (they fixed my gummy smile with TADs, but didn't help my overbite), I was told that I can get jaw surgery if I want to fix my bite, but the suggested movements seem off to me.

I was told lower jaw advancement and upper jaw clockwise rotation (but no movement)

My lower jaw seems big to me already while my midface is flat, and I can't really find cases like mine online. I'd really appreciate some thoughts: https://imgur.com/a/0nHdEz0

hi...
I'm part here for the support , so I appreciate your kindness.

I've posted pictures of me in the past here i don't wanna put them again.
I am a guy (45 yo) , suffer from severe constant facial pain which doctors claim it's not TMJ and drastic change to my facial look over 10 years.. from sculpted face that looked like i had perfect propotion  , i lost my vertical length ... i need so much like my mouth to be pushed down for it to get proportions.. i feel also the muscle needs it (but doctors fail to see nothing in the MRI). But look had defenetly changed. i'm devestated by it . Only in this forum people were honest and told me the truth - people saw the big difference and confirmed what i didn't need confirmation for. I'm devestated, lost the spark of live, love , etc . all the important things in live.

From all the surgeon in Europe i've seen (i can't travel farther that that) - the only works were to my taste were Raffinni.

I connected his office, maybe gave a too much detailed mail... told about my chronic pain (mayve it was a mistake) attached the picture (but not MRI) and requsted a Via Zoom consulation .  I got declined - saying they showed the pics to some of the docs there and they said they can't help . Answer was polite - but they didn't answer me why . 

(it might be they think i don't need jaw surgery, or my issues of facial change are others.. but if they don't see the change in jaw - they are not certified doctors - cause change is totally visible - (i don't need the validations  - but i did got it , also here in this forum , years ago people commented and saw the big difference how my jaw and chin has shortened).

It was weeks ago - i'm wondering if to try again to ask just for one time consulation for him at least to see my MRI maybe he spots something wrong .

Not that i'm going to surgery soon , everything takes years with me - but other than him - didn't see any other names in Europe , only Dr Z (bad reviews I remember from the admins of this forum which i appreciate) and Alfaro (also kinda bad reviews)...
Don't know which other doctors i can consult.
I'm also missing 5 teeth in my mouth  - which i can't have a transplate cause of neuropathic pain - i don't think i ever have a change to do a jaw surgery with 5 teeth missing. I'm so lost . Just needs this doctor to give me hope and plans for the future.

you probably got declined cause he doesnt do zoom consultations, only in person