Getting custom 3D CT-designed wraparound jaw and cheek implants in a few weeks

[SurgerySoon]

Kavan is right. And to repeat, you have perfectly normal and even above 'average' structure and facial balance.  If you REALLY want to add something like more chin projection or length I think you would be better off with a small SG than a silicone implant. Better long term stability and you won't be constantly worried about things shifting around because it's your own bone.

Wow yep it’s just that eye. Scrap the implants and fix that. And seriously get a stubble trimmer and do number 5 on the goatee and number 3 on the sides . It’ll look great

What about midface augmentation? You don't think I would benefit from adding projection and definition to my cheeks and orbital rims?

[SurgerySoon]

I mean this as a friend: you definitely have some kind of BDD issue. I would cancel all surgeries and see a therapist. I can't believe Dr. Y would even agree to do things like a midface lift etc. on you. It's madness.

My understanding is that Dr. Y's primary reasons for agreeing to do the midface lift are to improve my eye area by reducing lower eyelid drooping/retraction and to eliminate nasolabial folds that have developed in recent years.

So you don't think I could improve my looks in any way whatsoever?

[Lazlo]

My understanding is that Dr. Y's primary reasons for agreeing to do the midface lift are to improve my eye area by reducing lower eyelid drooping/retraction and to eliminate nasolabial folds that have developed in recent years.

So you don't think I could improve my looks in any way whatsoever?

you look pretty good as is.

[ben from UK]

I had no idea silicone was such a s**tty material for face implants. Not that I'm arguing, but do you have any articles I could check out that mention screws being likely to fall out of silicone implants eventually?

Now I'm thinking I should've gone with medpor and just dealt with the risk that future removal might be really difficult.

Here are a few more photos I uploaded where you can really see the deficiencies in my bone structure. Obviously, the first series of photos I uploaded were taken in flattering lighting, after exercising and losing a lot of water weight, etc. These weren't:

https://imgur.com/a/hYjgfjg

Looking at those photos, do you still think I wouldn't benefit from getting implants placed to improve cheek and chin projection at least (not to mention the midface lift to improve lower eyelids)? You don't see how flat the midface is when I'm not frauding by clenching my jaw, flexing my cheek muscles, etc?

The inconveniences of silicone are all known and have been discussed many times. In many cases it ruins the ogee line and shadows and bloats up the face. The ogee line is one of the most important facial traits. Even if someone lowers the jaw angles or broadens the jaw, ruining the ogee line will make the person worse looking. That's why photoshops look so good.  The ogee line is never ruined on Photoshop and the shadows stay in place.

Yes, you have flat parts on your face. So, yes, you could improve on those parts. Would I do it with silicone? That's not something i have to decide.

You also have a bit of a weak chin and high golonial angle from profile, so I do understand your idea, but it's the front that counts way more. From the front, your problem seems to be the flat midface and something with the eyes (probably bit lack of bone support there).

[ben from UK]

I mean this as a friend: you definitely have some kind of BDD issue. I would cancel all surgeries and see a therapist. I can't believe Dr. Y would even agree to do things like a midface lift etc. on you. It's madness.

He doesn't have BDD. The flaws he sees are real, they are just not major flaws that are worth risking a complete wrap around silicone implant that can ruin the front. I think he could improve his midface and eye area.

[fulcanelli]

What about midface augmentation? You don't think I would benefit from adding projection and definition to my cheeks and orbital rims?

I don’t know much about that but if it helps your eye that’s what I’d go for. Dude you’re not hideous at all but if you’re set on plastic surgery that’s what i’d Focus on. I think anything to your jaw would be a mistake. Sliding genioplasty might make your chin too long and pointy. What about filler on the sides of the chin to make it wider and squarer? Is it Dr Yaremchuk you are seeing?

Good luck.

[beyondconfusedtbh]

He doesn't have BDD. The flaws he sees are real, they are just not major flaws that are worth risking a complete wrap around silicone implant that can ruin the front. I think he could improve his midface and eye area.

You're a complete idiot.

[micjawsurgery]

Looking at your side profile your cheeks look pretty flat so I think infraorbital/high cheek implants would be an improvement. My cheeks project pretty similarly and I was told by Dr. Sinn I would be a good candidate for his malar ostetomy.

[kavan]

The inconveniences of silicone are all known and have been discussed many times. In many cases it ruins the ogee line and shadows and bloats up the face. The ogee line is one of the most important facial traits. Even if someone lowers the jaw angles or broadens the jaw, ruining the ogee line will make the person worse looking. That's why photoshops look so good.  The ogee line is never ruined on Photoshop and the shadows stay in place.

Yes, you have flat parts on your face. So, yes, you could improve on those parts. Would I do it with silicone? That's not something i have to decide.

You also have a bit of a weak chin and high golonial angle from profile, so I do understand your idea, but it's the front that counts way more. From the front, your problem seems to be the flat midface and something with the eyes (probably bit lack of bone support there).

Are you PROJECTING your own experience having to do with the SHAPE of something where the shape did not suit you and extrapolating that to the MATERIAL itself. Seems like it.

The ogee 'line' is the CHEEK CURVE when seen from 3/4 view. Silicone doesn't 'ruin' the ogee curve. What ever bad experiences you have personally had were probably due to the SHAPE you got and not the material itself.

Silicone is a fine material to use, especially for CUSTOM implants which are designed to cover LARGE areas in one piece. They can be squeezed/collapsed to be placed through a small incision and one can FEEL the FIT. Years back at a PS meeting with IMPLANT TECH I tried some out on a skull model and I could feel the fit. They allow the surgeon to have 'eyes in his fingers'. They also mimic BOTH bone structure and soft tissue thereby allowing LARGER augmentations than could be done with hard porex. When the material is hard porex, it would need to be CUT UP to place it if the implant to go in were a BROAD BASE implant such as midface that spanned an entire area or a wrap around jaw implant that included the chin.

What can 'ruin' any curve or angle is either (poor) SHAPE selection or poor FIT of the implant, for example an off the shelf implant that does not fit bone structure snugly.

[ben from UK]

Are you PROJECTING your own experience having to do with the SHAPE of something where the shape did not suit you and extrapolating that to the MATERIAL itself. Seems like it.

The ogee 'line' is the CHEEK CURVE when seen from 3/4 view. Silicone doesn't 'ruin' the ogee curve. What ever bad experiences you have personally had were probably due to the SHAPE you got and not the material itself.

Silicone is a fine material to use, especially for CUSTOM implants which are designed to cover LARGE areas in one piece. They can be squeezed/collapsed to be placed through a small incision and one can FEEL the FIT. Years back at a PS meeting with IMPLANT TECH I tried some out on a skull model and I could feel the fit. They allow the surgeon to have 'eyes in his fingers'. They also mimic BOTH bone structure and soft tissue thereby allowing LARGER augmentations than could be done with hard porex. When the material is hard porex, it would need to be CUT UP to place it if the implant to go in were a BROAD BASE implant such as midface that spanned an entire area or a wrap around jaw implant that included the chin.

What can 'ruin' any curve or angle is either (poor) SHAPE selection or poor FIT of the implant, for example an off the shelf implant that does not fit bone structure snugly.

Less and less surgeons in Europe use silicone. They consider it as 'something from the past'.

https://www.2passclinic.com/why-theres-no-place-for-silicon-implants-in-facial-augmentation/

Silicone
Silicone implants are used in the face for chin augmentation. A pocket needs to be created that is not bigger than the implant itself because otherwise the implant will not stay in place. It is not possible to fixate silicon implants with screws, because the silicone is too soft for it. The silicone would rupture at the position of the screw and the implant would be loose again.

This is also the reason why silicon implants are exclusively used in the face for chin augmentation. This is the only place where acceptable esthetic results are achievable with such an implant. In all other parts of the face the risk is too high that the pocket is not made exactly where the implant should come and then there is no way for the surgeon to correct this. The implant will always go to the lowest point of the pocket.

Another disadvantage of the silicone implant is the unnatural look it mostly gives, if not at the beginning then after a few years when the body of the patient reacts by forming a capsule around the facial implants. The capsule will contract with time and the look becomes more and more unnatural. The unnatural look is the reason why lots of patients have their silicone chin implant removed after a few years. As facial implants, silicone implants are simply not suited

*Example of ruined ogee line, missing 'shadows' and bloated face after silicone implant, see this threads: http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=6643.0

[SurgerySoon]

Looking at your side profile your cheeks look pretty flat so I think infraorbital/high cheek implants would be an improvement. My cheeks project pretty similarly and I was told by Dr. Sinn I would be a good candidate for his malar ostetomy.

Yeah, I feel pretty confident about the custom midface implants, as well as the midface lift to raise the lower eyelids.

He doesn't have BDD. The flaws he sees are real, they are just not major flaws that are worth risking a complete wrap around silicone implant that can ruin the front. I think he could improve his midface and eye area.

Finally, someone who seems to "get it," so to speak. I don't think I'm a legitimately ugly guy, but at the same time, I have always wanted to look better and yield the... benefits... of being better-looking. When I walk around out in public, I see plenty of guys that are way worse-looking than me, so I realize that my starting point could be much lower than it is.

Do you think the morph photo I posted earlier where my jaw angles are lowered is an improvement? Maybe I could ask Dr. Y about lowering the angles and not really adding much width. They just look so steep from the side.

I don’t know much about that but if it helps your eye that’s what I’d go for. Dude you’re not hideous at all but if you’re set on plastic surgery that’s what i’d Focus on. I think anything to your jaw would be a mistake. Sliding genioplasty might make your chin too long and pointy. What about filler on the sides of the chin to make it wider and squarer? Is it Dr Yaremchuk you are seeing?

Good luck.

Thanks. Yes, I'm going with Dr. Yaremchuk for the surgery. I agree that my eye area sucks, and I'm hoping that the combination of orbital rim implants + midface lift will really help improve the area (as well as make me more defined and masculine-looking in general).

So you don't think that it would look good to at least drop my jaw angles, even if I didn't add any width?

you look pretty good as is.

Thanks

[kavan]

Less and less surgeons in Europe use silicone. They consider it as 'something from the past'.

https://www.2passclinic.com/why-theres-no-place-for-silicon-implants-in-facial-augmentation/

Silicone
Silicone implants are used in the face for chin augmentation. A pocket needs to be created that is not bigger than the implant itself because otherwise the implant will not stay in place. It is not possible to fixate silicon implants with screws, because the silicone is too soft for it. The silicone would rupture at the position of the screw and the implant would be loose again.

This is also the reason why silicon implants are exclusively used in the face for chin augmentation. This is the only place where acceptable esthetic results are achievable with such an implant. In all other parts of the face the risk is too high that the pocket is not made exactly where the implant should come and then there is no way for the surgeon to correct this. The implant will always go to the lowest point of the pocket.

Another disadvantage of the silicone implant is the unnatural look it mostly gives, if not at the beginning then after a few years when the body of the patient reacts by forming a capsule around the facial implants. The capsule will contract with time and the look becomes more and more unnatural. The unnatural look is the reason why lots of patients have their silicone chin implant removed after a few years. As facial implants, silicone implants are simply not suited

*Example of ruined ogee line, missing 'shadows' and bloated face after silicone implant, see this threads: http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=6643.0

This is the opinion of a LESSER doctor than Y. He's even using Y's photo of a patient and not giving attribution. Y also used to use the porex off the shelf implants and hand adjusted them. But now gives silicone as an option as it is easier to remove if a patient doesn't like it. Dr. Terino was one of THE first implant guys and he always used silicone and with good results. Ramirez used both. So top implant 'movers and shakers' are those 3 docs and NOT the one you linked to.

ETA. Your JSF linked linked to a SCAMMER; SJ .

ETA: The photos of a bad outcome are a function of what I SAID in my post which is poor SHAPE or poor FIT but not the material.

[ben from UK]

This is the opinion of a LESSER doctor than Y. He's even using Y's photo of a patient and not giving attribution. Y also used to use the porex off the shelf implants and hand adjusted them. But now gives silicone as an option as it is easier to remove if a patient doesn't like it. Dr. Terino was one of THE first implant guys and he always used silicone and with good results. Ramirez used both. So top implant 'movers and shakers' are those 3 docs and NOT the one you linked to.

ETA. Your JSF linked linked to a SCAMMER; SJ .

ETA: The photos of a bad outcome are a function of what I SAID in my post which is poor SHAPE or poor FIT but not the material.

Not only the opinion of Bart but the opinion of more surgeons i spoke. I had silicone implants and it didn't look natural because silicone basically 'pushes' the soft tissue outwards. The soft tissue never really integrates onto the implant, the implant doesn't 'blend' into the face in a natural way in most cases, the tissue doesn't 'stick' on it, the implant is smooth and scar tissue builds around it. This is a common issue that makes it look unnatural, especially with wrap around implants.

I also was able to see the results of peek, titanium, silicone and medpor in surgeon's offices. From what i could see, aestethically speaking: peek>titanium>medpor>silicone.

I do agree the size of the silicone implant is also important for more natural results . But there are more problems with silicone. The screws get loose (which happened to me as well), which can make the implant move. A couple of surgeons told me it's soft material and therefore not okay because the material needs to be hard to replicate bone. Revision rates are as high as 30-40 and sometimes 50 percent (but i know with other implant materials there isn't enough data to make a good comparison).

I guess it's an open debate, but to say i'm projecting is not true.

P.S: I used the picture in SJ's thread, which can be found on the net. It's only about the pic.

[kavan]

I mean this as a friend: you definitely have some kind of BDD issue. I would cancel all surgeries and see a therapist. I can't believe Dr. Y would even agree to do things like a midface lift etc. on you. It's madness.

He might not have BDD but he does have some kind of 'issue' that concern his motivations to look like 'Superman' and also his FLOUNDERING in indecision about this for many years. He's been on RS for like 6 years deliberating this and asking doctors what procedures will kick up the Superman face. Think I may have seen his posts on MMH too where he was getting surgery 'soon'. Now this, with all the implants made and he's still floundering. I took a look at his 'Lookism' posts where the reveal is the fantasy/expectation that this surgery will result in a stream of hot promiscuous chicks falling at his feet wanting one night stands with him and with no work or charm or personality on his part to offer them.

Not passing judgment on the fantasy because what guy (other than another super MM) wouldn't want to look like Cavill and what guy, handsome or homely, wouldn't want hot chicks falling at their feet. But when THAT is the GOAL of having the surgery, it's called an 'UNREALISTIC EXPECTATION'. So the fantasy is normal. But the expectation of surgery turning that fantasy into a reality is ABNORMAL.

My take is that he wants to transform from 'incel' to 'in and out cell' but the surgery isn't going to help him pump it up and pump it up real good if he can't pump it up at all without surgery. I take that he thinks that ONLY a nice face is THE ticket to a high lay count of hot promiscuous chicks. So, after his surgery, not only should he wear his cape to the clubs but he might also have to sport a T shirt that says; 'Got Viagra' or 'Got a sex manual'.

I don't think he should cancel though. I think he should go through with it. No flies on Y when Y accommodates a request that the implants be (some of) the PARTS a MM has. Y still has some restraint and won't go overboard. As long as Y didn't tell him 'Oh yes, you will look just like Cavill and this will increase your lay count dramatically.'

So, maybe not BDD. But I think you may have picked up on something in the venue that veers from reality.

[kavan]

Not only the opinion of Bart but the opinion of more surgeons i spoke. I had silicone implants and it didn't look natural because silicone basically 'pushes' the soft tissue outwards. The soft tissue never really integrates onto the implant, the implant doesn't 'blend' into the face in a natural way in most cases, the tissue doesn't 'stick' on it, the implant is smooth and scar tissue builds around it. This is a common issue that makes it look unnatural, especially with wrap around implants.

I also was able to see the results of peek, titanium, silicone and medpor in surgeon's offices. From what i could see, aestethically speaking: peek>titanium>medpor>silicone.

I do agree the size of the silicone implant is also important for more natural results . But there are more problems with silicone. The screws get loose (which happened to me as well), which can make the implant move. A couple of surgeons told me it's soft material and therefore not okay because the material needs to be hard to replicate bone. Revision rates are as high as 30-40 and sometimes 50 percent (but i know with other implant materials there isn't enough data to make a good comparison).

I guess it's an open debate, but to say i'm projecting is not true.

P.S: I used the picture in SJ's thread, which can be found on the net. It's only about the pic.

There are basic pros and cons of silicone vs 'porex' (trade name). A pro of silicone is that the the tissue does NOT integrate into the implant which is usually described as 'easy' to remove. The CON of porex is HARD to remove but the con is described as the pro of tissue integration.

Revision rates could be higher with silicone because they give more of the 'easy to remove if I don't like it' option.

As to the photo, my comment about it was that it was example of what I said. It's either the SHAPE of implant as in wrong selection of one or the fit of it. But that mostly applies to off the shelf implants.  As I said, one can get MORE augmentation with silicone than with porex because silicone mimics BOTH soft tissue and bone structure underneath. Do the same extent of augmentation with HARD material and it gives a GARGOYLE effect which is why they have to be much more conservative with porex augments than with silicone. Like a large augment with porex would make someone look very skeletal because it's TOO MUCH bone look with large augment which is one of the factors in selecting implant materials. Large broad base augments where some soft tissue needs to be mimicked, best to do with silicone. Smaller targeted augments, best to do with porex.  Lack of soft tissue coverage will LIMIT the amount of augmentation you can get with porex. Because too much of a porex augment could look like really thin skin over 'bone' and that's what I mean by skeletal.  Some of these; 'I want to look like a Male model' requests resolve to significant augmentations which is why silicone is better choice. Especially if the patient is thin or doesn't have a lot of soft tissue coverage to put in a large porex augment.